Light Rail Transit

[mpd618]

Stops could include any future development at the massive vacant property on Belmont and Glasgow...

It may be underused, but the property is not vacant and is in operation.

[KevinL]

have the city really improve/expand the Kitchener Market.

An LRT station less than 5 minutes' walk away will probably make this a requirement, soon enough.

[KayDubya]

The approved routing is the split route on Borden and Ottawa. This was chosen due to the space needed to widen Ottawa Street to 4 lanes through here in the RTMP. I personally think that a number of alternatives could be explored to this option such as a routing through Rockway Golf course, or along Shirley Drive.

It's going to be quite interesting to see how the turn from Borden to Courtland will work.
Is MTD shutting down their warehouse? They may not employ near the number of people they once did but tractor trailer traffic between their yards on Borden blocks the street on a near constant basis as they shunt trailers across Borden ave.
On Borden between Charles and Nyburg there is a fair amount of truck traffic. I'd guess trucks are entering the MTD and Borden Cold Storage Yards just as frequently as trains would run through the area. I wonder if that amount of tractor trailer traffic and LRT will fit on that small street? Maple Leaf Foods on Coutland Ave run tractor trailers out of their yards like air traffic control at Pearson. They enter their yard off off Borden Ave. Perhaps up to 150 trucks a day make the tight turn from Borden to Courtland or Courtland to Borden. It's a narrow turn for a tractor trailer to make, their are houses on both sides of the road and now there will be an LRT line as well.

Can we assume some of those houses will be bought up to widen the road between the Borden/Courtland and Ottawa/Courtland intersections?
I'd guess they may change the truck route to keep tractor trailer traffic from turning left off Courtland to Borden when heading into the Maple Leaf yard. If they routed them in the opposite direction they could turn right and avoid the LRT tracks at that corner for the most part.

What about Borden, Would the street have to be widened to accommodate traffic in both directions plus a train down the centre? Would this have to be done by buying up properties or parts of properties on Borden Ave?
I work in the area and let me tell you I've seen some very, um, "creative" truck driving on Borden Ave. Adding a train to the mix could be interesting.

[KayDubya]

^^^^^
After taking a closer look at the map it appears that trains would run up Borden across Courtland and on to the rail spur just beyond the end or Borden Ave. The train doesn't turn on to Courtland, is this correct or am I reading the map wrong?

[mpd618]

^^^^^
After taking a closer look at the map it appears that trains would run up Borden across Courtland and on to the rail spur just beyond the end or Borden Ave. The train doesn't turn on to Courtland, is this correct or am I reading the map wrong?

You're reading the map right - it would travel to the rail spur.

[KevinL]

^^^^^
After taking a closer look at the map it appears that trains would run up Borden across Courtland and on to the rail spur just beyond the end or Borden Ave. The train doesn't turn on to Courtland, is this correct or am I reading the map wrong?

That is correct. Trains turn from Borden to the rail spur; the opposite direction has trains turning from the rail spur onto Ottawa.

[WaterlooNative]

I'm also pretty confident that the existing GRT network will be sorted out shortly. Are you concerned that The Region is not committed to better serving the CTC by reorganizing GRT local services?

Committment is one thing, funding is another. From the Regions news release:
"Approve funding for improvements to Grand River Transit bus service, subject to annual budget deliberations, based on an annual tax rate increase of 0.3 per cent per year (2012 to 2018), area rated to the urban transit service area;"

The message that I have heard from talking to talk is that GRT changes and realignments will occur if and when the funds are available. If anything changes in Region's financial picture, I expect these changes to be delayed.

Realignment is definitely going to happen.

And so too will we have a new Pope. It could be next year, it could be in two decades.

To be clear, this is a process that is already beginning. It is partially about adding new express and local routes, but much of it doesn't require more money so much as careful and deliberate adjustment of existing resources.

Unless you try to realign a bus route away from a current traffic area. One anecdote I heard was from bus users who take the iXpress to Albert McCormick area. Any word on what vestige of the iXpress might remain?

An additional LRT line could relatively easily use the tracks that run from the intermodal hub at King and Victoria to The Boardwalk on Ira Needles and beyond. Stops could include any future development at the massive vacant property on Belmont and Glasgow, then at Westmount, Fischer Hallman, The Boardwalk and then perhaps even out to New Hamburg, Shakespeare and finally in Stratford at Downie St. This, assuming the GO Trains do not end up running that far.

I would rather see a double track heavy rail line heading west. Much more versatile for further east-west traffic. However, I'm not sure how much space is available in the cutting that heads west under Fisher-Hallman Road.

As for LRT additions Id really like to see the route extended to St. Jacobs Market, or have the city really improve/expand the Kitchener Market.

The St. Jacobs Market area is dead except on Market days. Hardly a good reason to take transit there on an off-day.

[mpd618]

The message that I have heard from talking to talk is that GRT changes and realignments will occur if and when the funds are available. If anything changes in Region's financial picture, I expect these changes to be delayed.

New routes are affected by this, so there may only be several more express routes by LRT opening day. Realignments will occur regardless.

Unless you try to realign a bus route away from a current traffic area. One anecdote I heard was from bus users who take the iXpress to Albert McCormick area. Any word on what vestige of the iXpress might remain?

Realignments can mean straightening out and untangling routes, and altering terminals, not necessarily removing them from high demand areas.

I doubt any vestige of the iXpress would remain at McCormick; the 9 would remain, possibly in an altered form, and there could still be a possible Bearinger station on the LRT. The high demand at McCormick is driven by students who as a population are flexible both in mode of travel as well as where they end up living.

[RangersFan]

The St. Jacobs Market area is dead except on Market days. Hardly a good reason to take transit there on an off-day.

While agree but on market days it has to be the hottest attraction in the region by a large amount. Maybe they could expand the days of operation.

[Ktown4ever]

While agree but on market days it has to be the hottest attraction in the region by a large amount. Maybe they could expand the days of operation.

Agree. And if there was daily transit - maybe it could operate more during the week!

[KayDubya]

I must say, I love Jim Wideman.
I sent him an email last night regarding some questions I had about the Borden Ave portion of the LRT line. He forwarded that email to another person who immediately sent me a response complete with some very wonderfully detailed functional drawings of much of the line and for the most part addressed all my concerns.

[thebruce]

sorry, not sure on proper formatting yet for article quotes

570News: LRT Funding in Question

The province has already committed 300 million dollars to Waterloo region's light rail transit project.

But there's a chance that funding could vanish if a new government takes over in the fall, according to Bob Chiarelli.

Ontario's Minister of Infrastructure was a guest on 570's Gary Doyle show this afternoon.

He believes a lot of infrastructure projects will fall by the wayside if a Conservative Government is elected, he says that would likely include the LRT project.

570 News spoke with Kitchener Waterloo MPP Elizabeth Witmer.

She vows the Conservatives are going to follow through on any commitments that have been made to infrastructure, including the LRT commitment.

Witmer says Chiarelli is simply 'fear mongering' and making statements like this across Ontario.

[Waterlooer]

sorry, not sure on proper formatting yet for article quotes

570News: LRT Funding in Question

Great article, and no problem about the formatting. Here's a post which explains it all: http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/sho...2050#post22050

[thebruce]

Thanks Waterlooer, wasn't sure if there was an auto-formatted template, if only some could post that style, or if it had to be manually formatted. Now I know it's the latter tnx

[WaterlooNative]

While agree but on market days it has to be the hottest attraction in the region by a large amount. Maybe they could expand the days of operation.

Hottest with bus tours and car loads of people but I doubt enough regular, grocery-buying public transit users to justify it. I routinely fill my trunk with fruits and vegetables in the summer. Taking two or three bushels on the LRT would be quite the hassle. From late fall to early spring there are very few outside venders and market patronage is quite low.

The market is too far on the periphery to attract the casual, coming-home-from-work crowd that a daily market might attract. Any idea how the downtown Waterloo Market (or for that matter Kitchener Market) does for clientele?

I also doubt that these folks would be too impressed to see their investment in the Region overlooked. Definitely room for co-operation.

[Newgrad]

Hottest with bus tours and car loads of people but I doubt enough regular, grocery-buying public transit users to justify it. I routinely fill my trunk with fruits and vegetables in the summer. Taking two or three bushels on the LRT would be quite the hassle. From late fall to early spring there are very few outside venders and market patronage is quite low.

The market is too far on the periphery to attract the casual, coming-home-from-work crowd that a daily market might attract. Any idea how the downtown Waterloo Market (or for that matter Kitchener Market) does for clientele?

I also doubt that these folks would be too impressed to see their investment in the Region overlooked. Definitely room for co-operation.

The problem with the WCR is that the prices they have created precludes them from ever being a mass transportation option. At $15 per person, they won't get anyone other than tourists and people using it for the first time. It isn't viable to use it as a transportation option for a weekly or even monthly trip to St.Jacobs.

[mpd618]

Hottest with bus tours and car loads of people but I doubt enough regular, grocery-buying public transit users to justify it. I routinely fill my trunk with fruits and vegetables in the summer.

I was going to reply to the rest of your comment, but I can't get past your inclusion of the phrase "regular, grocery-buying public transit user". I mean, what? Are public transit users different from the rest of us?

[WaterlooNative]

I was going to reply to the rest of your comment, but I can't get past your inclusion of the phrase "regular, grocery-buying public transit user". I mean, what? Are public transit users different from the rest of us?

No. But given the amount of food that I have seen people loading into their cars, I can't see riding transit with that amount of cargo. With that in mind, my concept of someone who would likely use transit for grocery shopping is someone who has a few bags, or perhaps a bundle buggy but nothing more. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[mpd618]

No. But given the amount of food that I have seen people loading into their cars, I can't see riding transit with that amount of cargo. With that in mind, my concept of someone who would likely use transit for grocery shopping is someone who has a few bags, or perhaps a bundle buggy but nothing more. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I've also seen people loading cars with lots of food, sure. But the suggestion isn't for everyone to take transit to this market. I think most of those shopping at St. Jacobs, and certainly at the Kitchener Market, are not getting more than can be carried or that fits in a portable shopping cart.

The St. Jacobs market is worth getting to, and particularly if you don't have to battle for parking!

[plam]

No. But given the amount of food that I have seen people loading into their cars, I can't see riding transit with that amount of cargo. With that in mind, my concept of someone who would likely use transit for grocery shopping is someone who has a few bags, or perhaps a bundle buggy but nothing more. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

40L backpack.