Coffee Culture

[uptownfoodcritic]

I disagree with you here. Sure Coffee Culture is a chain coffee shop, but I like their mandate. They aim to preserve and enhance historical/older buildings which they have done quite nicely in their Uptown and Downtown locations. They also choose to open the majority of their locations in urban areas rather than on the suburban fringe. Coffee Culture does not look like your typical fast food chain coffee shop. It is a huge step up from the Zacks store that used to be here, which was one of the discount liquidation Zacks stores that barely anyone went to.

And again, Coffee Culture does bring a lot of people into Uptown. More than the Zacks store ever did.

I have been in several other Coffee Cultures in other small towns. They all look the same to me. However, you should note that I did not complain about their design or setting, just about the incredible mediocrity of their offerings.

As to Coffee Culture bringing people Uptown or Downtown? Seriously, how many people do you think are traveling to the cores just for a stop off at Coffee Culture? Sure they serve the people who come to the cores but they are not net attractors to the core. Say what you will about Zacks (and I am not sad to see it gone), it did bring the old ladies out in search of a bargain.

My main issue with Coffee Culture is that it is all about how the place looks and nothing about what the place serves. How tough would it be for them to have gone the extra distance to have good quality fair trade coffee or decent food? Instead they make the place look shiny, serve up generic junk and everyone goes ooh and ah.

I'm not willing to fall for the gimicks. I expect more from Uptown eateries than I do from the suburban chains and Coffee Culture fails on every level except for setting. Sad really. The core deserves better than this.

[Spokes]

While you may not like their food/coffee do you not think that the fact that its always busy shows that the majority of people do?

[mpd618]

As to Coffee Culture bringing people Uptown or Downtown? Seriously, how many people do you think are traveling to the cores just for a stop off at Coffee Culture? Sure they serve the people who come to the cores but they are not net attractors to the core.

Without wading into the rest of the argument, I'll say that while it probably doesn't attract all that many people from outside those areas, it is part of making those areas more attractive to live and work in. For the people who enjoy its offerings, of course, or the fact that it's open late -- unlike all of the other shops you listed as better (a judgment I'd probably agree with).

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

I have been in several other Coffee Cultures in other small towns. They all look the same to me. However, you should note that I did not complain about their design or setting, just about the incredible mediocrity of their offerings.

As to Coffee Culture bringing people Uptown or Downtown? Seriously, how many people do you think are traveling to the cores just for a stop off at Coffee Culture? Sure they serve the people who come to the cores but they are not net attractors to the core. Say what you will about Zacks (and I am not sad to see it gone), it did bring the old ladies out in search of a bargain.

My main issue with Coffee Culture is that it is all about how the place looks and nothing about what the place serves. How tough would it be for them to have gone the extra distance to have good quality fair trade coffee or decent food? Instead they make the place look shiny, serve up generic junk and everyone goes ooh and ah.

I'm not willing to fall for the gimicks. I expect more from Uptown eateries than I do from the suburban chains and Coffee Culture fails on every level except for setting. Sad really. The core deserves better than this.

I think basing this on volumes of people traveling to the cores just to go to Coffee Culture negates this discussion. After all, it's just a coffee shop which at best are not real big traffic generators (except for maybe a Tim Hortons at 8 AM). But in comparison, Coffee Culture is an upper-crust coffee shop at that - and something that does looks great and supports investing in downtown areas. The atmosphere and ambiance is much better than a Tim Hortons, Williams, Second Cup or Starbucks in my opinion. Sure Starbucks or Matter of Taste may have better quality beverages and, oh yes, the indie, eco-friendly, locally owned, organic, non-chain, fair-trade, etc. etc. etc. coffee shops can be argued to be better for the local economy, I still think this is against the point. There is a fair share of BOTH types Uptown as well as a market for both. While I totally support local businesses, at times, we do need to take our locally-owned/organic goggles off when determining what is good for the progression of an area.

If the food really was that terrible and poor quality as you claim, Coffee Culture wouldn't be as consistently busy as it is and with such a diverse clientele (people of all ages, occupations, faiths) - the Waterloo location is approaching being open for a year now so I think the novelty has worn off and the shop has successfully established a loyal customer base. I commend Coffee Culture's initiative and support for Uptown, regardless of what their food may taste like. The business of the shop proves that it is a hit and a healthy business for the area. Every business will have its naysayers.

[Spokes]

Ya realistically most coffee shops won't draw people to a particular area, but like mpd618 said, they make an area more attractive to live/work in.

[uptownfoodcritic]

If the food really was that terrible and poor quality as you claim, Coffee Culture wouldn't be as consistently busy as it is and with such a diverse clientele (people of all ages, occupations, faiths) - the Waterloo location is approaching being open for a year now so I think the novelty has worn off and the shop has successfully established a loyal customer base. I commend Coffee Culture's initiative and support for Uptown, regardless of what their food may taste like. The business of the shop proves that it is a hit and a healthy business for the area. Every business will have its naysayers.

With all due respect, to claim that because a restaurant's food can't be bad because it is busy ignores the reality that McDonald's even exists and that the food court in every mall is always crowded.

To give a business a high five for being supportive of the core while providing a crappy product is misguided in the extreme. You should be asking them to improve their product instead of slapping them on the back and congratulating them for lowering the median level of culinary offerings in our city.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

/\ In that case, bring in the competition who in your opinion serves a better product. I have no worries about Coffee Culture if that happens and think they will do just fine. Just look at Matter of Taste, who has far superior products and that locally owned charm. Those who think Coffee Culture and its mass consumerism persona is baggage for the downtown cores can just go there instead. In business, it is all about the bottom line/breaking even, and I think Coffee Culture is exceeding that at both locations and could care less.

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

With all due respect, Uptownfoodcritic and Duke-of-Waterloo are really just coming from different perspectives. I suspect Duke-of-Waterloo just wants to see uptown become more vibrant and built up, even if that process may include a McDonalds and a divey falafel house. So in that case, if it's busy, it's good for uptown.

Uptownfoodcritic, on the other hand, is a food critic. It's what he/she does. Everything that is short of the finest cuisine known to man will come under the lens of critique.

As I see it, any vibrant core area will have a mix of all of the above, catering to people all over the city and region, and I think uptown does a fairly good job of that. Not every restaurant can be an uptown21. For many people, a Subway or Coffee Culture suits their daily needs.

[uptownfoodcritic]

Uptownfoodcritic, on the other hand, is a food critic. It's what he/she does. Everything that is short of the finest cuisine known to man will come under the lens of critique.

Sort of the idea although I am not adverse to judging lower cost food on a value basis.

For example, I have repeatedly mentioned that I think the sandwiches at The Princess Cafe and Seven Shores are very tasty and worth the cost (which is not high). I would say the same thing about the panini's at Whole-Lota-Gelata.

I think the $2.00 tacos at Ethel's are well worth the money (they are not great but at 50 cents each...) as are many other items on the Ethel's menu.

The Savory (in the atrium) has excellent meat pies that you can eat in the shop for under $5.00.

Masala Bay's lunch buffet is worth the cost as well (although their evening menu is far superior fare though much pricier).

So I am not adverse to lower end food as long as it is well done. Coffee Culture does not fall into this category. Neither does Tim Horton's or Subway. If you want decent coffee there are much better options out there. If you want a quick sandwich, there are much better options out there.

I will admit to getting tired of places dressing themselves up design-wise but not putting out proper food (a la BK and CC). I prefer substance over style but I don't think both at the same time is unachievable.

[Spokes]

With all due respect, to claim that because a restaurant's food can't be bad because it is busy ignores the reality that McDonald's even exists and that the food court in every mall is always crowded.

To give a business a high five for being supportive of the core while providing a crappy product is misguided in the extreme. You should be asking them to improve their product instead of slapping them on the back and congratulating them for lowering the median level of culinary offerings in our city.

In your opinion it's bad food. It wouldn't be crowded if people didn't like it. No one would buy food they thought was bad.

[uptownfoodcritic]

In your opinion it's bad food. It wouldn't be crowded if people didn't like it. No one would buy food they thought was bad.

Sigh. Again with the spurious logic.

McDonald's are busy, is McDonald's good food? Tim Horton's are busy, is Tim Horton's good food?

People look for the familiar. The food is secondary.

I know Coffee Culture is busy but that does not mean the coffee or the food is good. Hell, we had a Coffee Time in Uptown for years and their food and coffee made Coffee Culture look like haute cuisine. More to the point though, Coffee Time is no longer in Uptown.

For that matter, Symposium Cafe still exists in Uptown and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

[Spokes]

Sigh. Again with the spurious logic.

McDonald's are busy, is McDonald's good food? Tim Horton's are busy, is Tim Horton's good food?

People look for the familiar. The food is secondary.

I know Coffee Culture is busy but that does not mean the coffee or the food is good. Hell, we had a Coffee Time in Uptown for years and their food and coffee made Coffee Culture look like haute cuisine. More to the point though, Coffee Time is no longer in Uptown.

For that matter, Symposium Cafe still exists in Uptown and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

Ya but Im trying to say that there are clearly people who think that yes Tim Hortons and McDonalds have good food. The best food? Im sure not, but good food yes. Otherwise why on earth would they go there if they didn't like it or think it was good?

Symposium offers something a bit different and therefore people will go. It's a nice atmosphere, I know a lot of people like the deserts. Its a pretty good little place.

[uptownfoodcritic]

Ya but Im trying to say that there are clearly people who think that yes Tim Hortons and McDonalds have good food. The best food? Im sure not, but good food yes. Otherwise why on earth would they go there if they didn't like it or think it was good?

And what I am trying to explain is that the quality of the food doesn't even factor into when the decision to eat at those places is made. It is for the sense of the familiar and sameness that people go to chains. Which is exactly what you get in the suburbs. Which is where the chains belong. The Uptown should be about a unique experience that you cannot get elsewhere.

Symposium offers something a bit different and therefore people will go. It's a nice atmosphere, I know a lot of people like the deserts. Its a pretty good little place.

I will admit to not having been in there in the last couple of years. Enough bad experiences with dirty tables, chair, couches, plates, glasses, etc. scared me off. Bad service and quality aside that is.

Their food safety inspection record appears to remain fairly poor. It is an eat at your own risk establishment IMO.

Symposium Food Inspection Record

[uptownfoodcritic]

Out of interest I checked the Food Inspection Record for Coffee Culture in Uptown.

Looks they failed twice last summer and need a re-inspection which either they never had or the Region did not log it.

I hope those were just first inspection jitters but to fail back-to-back inspections is never a good thing.

Coffee Culture Food Inspection Record

[Spokes]

And what I am trying to explain is that the quality of the food doesn't even factor into when the decision to eat at those places is made. It is for the sense of the familiar and sameness that people go to chains. Which is exactly what you get in the suburbs. Which is where the chains belong. The Uptown should be about a unique experience that you cannot get elsewhere.

Ya and I agree the food isnt the primary factor, but I still don't think people wouldn't go there if they didn't like it. And I disagree with you about chains not belonging uptown 100% but we've had this discussion already

I will admit to not having been in there in the last couple of years. Enough bad experiences with dirty tables, chair, couches, plates, glasses, etc. scared me off. Bad service and quality aside that is.

Their food safety inspection record appears to remain fairly poor. It is an eat at your own risk establishment IMO.

Symposium Food Inspection Record

I've never had issues there, but I wasn't aware of the history