Complete Uptown Waterloo Public Square

[mpd618]

It is law anywhere in the province of Alberta for a driver to stop for a pedestrians if they step up to the curb in an attempt to cross the street. You would likely have experienced the same thing crossing any street in Edmonton. I have seen drivers get pulled over for failing to stop as a pedestrian attempted to cross while in Calgary.

Waterloo Region is trying to get the Ontario Highway Traffic Act changed toward similar ends.

[IEFBR14]

Waterloo Region is trying to get the Ontario Highway Traffic Act changed toward similar ends.

There are a lot of laws on the books, especially provisions in the ON HTA, that are rarely, if ever, enforced. Signalling turns and lane changes come to mind, not to mention excessive speeds in bad weather.

Then there are the regulations that relate to pedestrian safety. Most people get away with violating these regulations unless they do it in front of a cop's nose on a slow day. Even then, there's no guarantee that they'll be charged. I've seen it first hand. Many, many times.

It seems that about the only way to get a driver charged with violating the pedestrian provisions of the HTA is to get hit. That's not an option I would willingly consider

[ViewFromThe42]

I do wonder what the value of allowing so many laws to be broken is? I know that as a pedestrian, a driver, and an observer, I see numerous violations every trip. An interesting discussion for sure: how far do we go in looking the other way? What is the cost in foregone traffic tickets, in unnecessary accidents, and most important of all in citizen safety? Seems a far worse thing to subsidize than parking or public transit.

[IEFBR14]

I do wonder what the value of allowing so many laws to be broken is?

Part of the problem is that we have too many laws that are too specific. We need fewer, more general laws and far more common sense in their application.

Why did we need a law that explicitly banned talking/texting on cellphones while driving when we already have laws that prohibit driving while impaired? Why is it not OK to use a cellphone but it's OK to light and smoke a cigarette under the same circumstances?

Why do we need explicit laws about yielding to pedestrians when drivers are already required to drive with "due care and attention [and with] reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway" etc. (From the definition of careless driving in the ON HTA.)

[Long philosophical rant would ensue here if I had the time and patience to make it ]

[Section ThirtyOne]

It is law anywhere in the province of Alberta for a driver to stop for a pedestrians if they step up to the curb in an attempt to cross the street. You would likely have experienced the same thing crossing any street in Edmonton. I have seen drivers get pulled over for failing to stop as a pedestrian attempted to cross while in Calgary.

It has been my experience that drivers are better and more conscientious in general out west, specifically in Alberta. Speeding for example, is nearly non-existant in Calgary since the introduction of red light and speed cameras.

[Spokes]

Part of the problem is that we have too many laws that are too specific. We need fewer, more general laws and far more common sense in their application.

Why did we need a law that explicitly banned talking/texting on cellphones while driving when we already have laws that prohibit driving while impaired? Why is it not OK to use a cellphone but it's OK to light and smoke a cigarette under the same circumstances?

Why do we need explicit laws about yielding to pedestrians when drivers are already required to drive with "due care and attention [and with] reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway" etc. (From the definition of careless driving in the ON HTA.)

[Long philosophical rant would ensue here if I had the time and patience to make it ]

The problem with general laws is that they then become open to the interpretation of the officer, which then makes it much easier to fight in court.

[IEFBR14]

The problem with general laws is that they then become open to the interpretation of the officer, which then makes it much easier to fight in court.

Careful: You're tempting me to start that long philosophical rant I wanted to avoid

But yeah, that's an issue. OTOH very specific laws make them easier to challenge on technicalities. See e.g. Dangerous Driving/Careless Driving and specifically the section "Driving on a 'highway'." FWIW I once beat an illegal U-turn charge in Uptown by arguing that the lanes on either side of King St that are reserved for parking aren't part of a "highway" as defined in the HTA. (In any case, legal or not, my maneuver was perfectly safe. It happened on a Sunday morning when there was absolutely no other traffic, in any direction, or pedestrians visible to the naked eye.)

[Spokes]

Careful: You're tempting me to start that long philosophical rant I wanted to avoid

But yeah, that's an issue. OTOH very specific laws make them easier to challenge on technicalities. See e.g. Dangerous Driving/Careless Driving and specifically the section "Driving on a 'highway'." FWIW I once beat an illegal U-turn charge in Uptown by arguing that the lanes on either side of King St that are reserved for parking aren't part of a "highway" as defined in the HTA. (In any case, legal or not, my maneuver was perfectly safe. It happened on a Sunday morning when there was absolutely no other traffic, in any direction, or pedestrians visible to the naked eye.)

That's a good point too.

So how about that public square

[Urbanomicon]

I feel compelled to point out that it is not only cars that get away with ticketable offenses, I have seen large numbers of pedestrians jaywalking across the road, which can be just as dangerous as a vehicle not yielding to a pedestrian wanting to cross the street. Another example is cyclists using the road incorrectly.

If traffic enforcement were increased, I would hope enforcement for other modes of travel would be as well.

[IEFBR14]

pedestrians jaywalking across the road, which can be just as dangerous as a vehicle not yielding to a pedestrian wanting to cross the street.

The temptation to start the long philosophical rant that I wanted to avoid is getting harder to resist

I jay-walk a lot. I do it, even if it's "against the law" because it's safer than trying to cross a street on a green light with cars turning into my path. But when I do jay-walk I do so very carefully, probably more carefully than 99% of pedestrians who blithely cross on a green light. When I do do it, I first make sure that there's no vehicular traffic nearby, so that no car has to slow down, let alone hit their brakes, in order to avoid hitting me. If I did otherwise I'd expect to get a ticket and wouldn't fight it if I got one.

As far as I'm concerned that's only common sense.

OTOH in bad weather like yesterday one often sees vehicles travelling under the posted speed limit yet clearly too fast for the conditions. As far as I'm concerned that's careless, if not dangerous, driving. Nevertheless I doubt they ever get charged unless it's because they're involved in a collision.

Does that make any sense?

[Urbanomicon]

When I do do it, I first make sure that there's no vehicular traffic nearby, so that no car has to slow down, let alone hit their brakes, in order to avoid hitting me. If I did otherwise I'd expect to get a ticket and wouldn't fight it if I got one.

I do the same and I agree with you. However, there are a lot of people who will pay no or very little attention to traffic before jaywalking.

But once again this comes back to laws having to be in black and white and either allowing something or not allowing it.

[plam]

I feel compelled to point out that it is not only cars that get away with ticketable offenses, I have seen large numbers of pedestrians jaywalking across the road, which can be just as dangerous as a vehicle not yielding to a pedestrian wanting to cross the street. Another example is cyclists using the road incorrectly.

If traffic enforcement were increased, I would hope enforcement for other modes of travel would be as well.

Jaywalking is good.

I read on the Internet that legalizing jaywalking didn't increase pedestrian injuries or deaths, although there's no citation for that.

In particular, over-regulating traffic means that people don't have to think, and then more bad things happen. Roundabouts are an example of a traffic feature that require more engagement.

Stupid people jaywalk stupidly sometimes, but I don't think ticketing is really the answer.

[panamaniac]

...... However, there are a lot of people who will pay no or very little attention to traffic before jaywalking.

.........

I think that's called "culling"!

[Spokes]

One of the things architect Jan Gehl writes about is how public spaces work much better when they have edges, preferably soft ones. I'm thinking that the Waterloo public square could be extended across Willis Way to get a second edge to it. This could either be through closing Willis Way, or through making it a shared, pedestrian-priority street.

I feel like they tried to do this a bit as theres some small space in front of Channers, but not at all on a large scale.

[Greg Moore]

Tonight I decided it was too nice to stay in, so I headed down to the public square in Uptown Waterloo. I ended up just sitting and enjoying the evening there for three hours. There were hundreds of people passing through and a dozen seated most of the time. There were several skateboarders and "kids" hanging out. Families, and individual teens to elderly people, they all at times used the seating. I ran in to four people I know but haven't seen in a long time too, plus, UrbanWaterloo.

It was a great experience to see what a huge improvement this is over the once sacred parking lot. It was a vibrant, entertaining place to hang out. I only wish I had my Kindle to do a little reading.

I am glad that change was made to Uptown. If it hadn't, I may have sat in my air conditioned office staring at a screen all night instead being out enjoying the summer.

Edit: I forgot to mention that about half the #7 and iExpress buses were standing room only. There were a few that weren't packed, but most were.

[IEFBR14]

Tonight I decided it was too nice to stay in, so I headed down to the public square in Uptown Waterloo... I ran in to four people I know but haven't seen in a long time too, plus, UrbanWaterloo.

By coincidence I spent the evening drinking Guinness on the patio at the Duke with a bunch of friends from southern Ontario. Very pleasant summer evening weather.

[bcwessel]

This is an interesting and potentially useful tool and set of visuals concerning the best and worst public squares in the world. It might help us to identify what our square is doing right, what might help to improve it, and how it might compare to more iconic civic works elsewhere.

(Note: I've posted here, but this could easily apply to Kitchener City Hall, the Regional Courthouse, the Library/Centre In The Square redevelopment, and anywhere else that has or should have a square.

[metropolis]

Uptown Waterloo skating in the town square Dec. 27th.

Notice theRED crane is gone.

[luckee]

Great cityscape...quite impressive. No doubt the opening of "Beertown" has drawn more people to the square.

Unfortunately over the last five or six years several people have died in this core through pedestrians being killed or vehicles going too fast; this is unacceptable for a city this size; there are no calming measures in place and I suspect they don't care.

Waterloo city council has sat on their asses and done nothing to reduce the speed of cars; the most dangerous section at William where the street curves, has seen some nasty accidents, some even fatal, and this is a core area where things like this are not supposed to happen!

As a result waiting for the light to change, I stand back from the curb because there are a lot of crazies out there whose respect for property and human life is almost non existent.

Would like to see a boulevard right down the middle of King...single lane traffic, both ways; if Kitchener can do it can Waterloo do no less?

[planningthatplannyplan]

Great cityscape...quite impressive. No doubt the opening of "Beertown" has drawn more people to the square.

Unfortunately over the last five or six years several people have died in this core through pedestrians being killed or vehicles going too fast; this is unacceptable for a city this size; there are no calming measures in place and I suspect they don't care.

Waterloo city council has sat on their asses and done nothing to reduce the speed of cars; the most dangerous section at William where the street curves, has seen some nasty accidents, some even fatal, and this is a core area where things like this are not supposed to happen!

As a result waiting for the light to change, I stand back from the curb because there are a lot of crazies out there whose respect for property and human life is almost non existent.

Would like to see a boulevard right down the middle of King...single lane traffic, both ways; if Kitchener can do it can Waterloo do no less?

A small detail: The Region owns and controls King Street. , which means speeds are controlled by the Region. I'm not sure the details of the downtown Kitchener improvements, but know the City paid for them.