U/C Sage Condos

[Lens]

The tower itself is unremarkable at best, I think, but all the other elements of this are pretty awesome.

I completely agree. The tower is definitely not bad but it's not really anything exceptional either. It's average and that's actually saying a lot when you compare it to pretty much all the other student projects. It does look like this phase might appeal to a larger crowd but we'll have to see how that plays out. The main item that I find appealing about this project is the podium although I'm not sure if (at the present time) office space is really desirable in this location.

I also found the render of the rooftop patio to be quite nice except for the fact that it looked 30 storeys high and like West Waterloo was Las Vegas

[HankRearden]

The intention of Sage II is to appeal to both students, grad students and professionals alike. This is not typical "student housing", it is an upscale condo located in very close proximity to both the universities and the Technology Park. With it's unit layouts, amenities and location we believe it will achieve the resident mix that The City of Waterloo and it's steak holder so desire. We truly appreciate all of your kind words and feedback.

[markster]

So how is it that Spruce St is turning into the mixed use corrodor that King and University are supposed to be?

[Lugnut]

The tower itself is unremarkable at best, I think, but all the other elements of this are pretty awesome. I'm definitely glad to see these guys showing how to make Northdale urban and an attractive place. These units are certainly targeted to students, or rather, they are targeted at potential investors looking for a solid market. In reality, they're units of interest to all kinds of people.

Which does lead me to wonder - there's got to be a reason no one seems to build urban apartment buildings, only condos. Even when it's clearly targeted at the rental market, like this building. Is it difficulty getting financing?

I think the thought of getting the money up front and then moving on is appealing. Otherwise you're stuck being a property manager and a lot of developers don't want that, and they'd rather get their money up front rather than over time.

[BuildingScout]

So how is it that Spruce St is turning into the mixed use corrodor that King and University are supposed to be?

Of course. City council rarely leads. They bury their head in the sand and end up approving things several years after they happened, like the Northdale student district, like the Lester St housing row.

As I pointed out before, a 2003 UW Federation of Students survey proved that Lester St was down to less than 5 family homes yet city council went on to pass zoning regulations later that year affirming the "residential" nature of that street.

[markster]

I think the thought of getting the money up front and then moving on is appealing. Otherwise you're stuck being a property manager and a lot of developers don't want that, and they'd rather get their money up front rather than over time.

I believe (though, I do not have a link) that there were some regulation changes in the 90s that made condo construction much more attractive.

And as you say, it's easier to build, sell, and walk away. There aren't nearly as many potential buyers for entire apartment buildings.

[benjaminbach]

There aren't nearly as many potential buyers for entire apartment buildings.

I disagree; The number of active buyers for apartment buildings in Canada is much larger than the number of owners willing to sell, which has led to cap rate compression, in conjunction with the current low interest rates.

[mpd618]

The problem with condo development in Canada is that the condo status is pretty much permanent. For any redevelopment or conversion to apartments, either every single owner must agree or there must be court intervention. It's becoming a problem now that there are decades-old condos. In some other countries, agreement from 80% of owners is sufficient. (I am paraphrasing a recent article to which I don't have the link.)

[RangersFan]

Does anyone know if this is the largest of the three phases planned for this project? Should we create a separate thread for Sage 2 (same applies to 155 Caroline)?

[benjaminbach]

Does anyone know if this is the largest of the three phases planned for this project?

It is.

[HankRearden]

Yes, a new thread should be started. This is a totally separate project from Sage Condos.

[benjaminbach]

If anyone is interested in this project, I can provide pricing, floorplans and reserve units prior to the launch. They go on sale to the public on the 27th.

[benjaminbach]

As info, I'm hearing pre sales (prior to public launch) have been brisk. Our clients are liking the units higher up with Western exposures.

[UrbanWaterloo]

September 25, 2012

[Trogdor]

Well, you can't say we didn't get density. That second photo probably captures about 3000 beds worth of student housing in a single frame. I'm still amazed there was (is?) that much pent-up demand.

[panamaniac]

Well, you can't say we didn't get density. That second photo probably captures about 3000 beds worth of student housing in a single frame. I'm still amazed there was (is?) that much pent-up demand.

Is there?

[Trogdor]

Is there?

I would't think so, but they keep building them. I'll give these builders the (perhaps generous) benefit of the doubt that they at least investigated the market capacity before building.

[DHLawrence]

There are nearly thirty thousand undergrad and postgrad students at UWaterloo alone, and another sixteen or seventeen at WLU. Anyone know what the on-campus residence capacity of each campus is?

[mpd618]

I would't think so, but they keep building them. I'll give these builders the (perhaps generous) benefit of the doubt that they at least investigated the market capacity before building.

The point has come up earlier, and it's worth stating it again. A big reason why all this student development is happening now isn't because of market demand, but because the new City of Waterloo Official Plan is changing the density calculations, reducing how many bedrooms can be built on these properties. So these developers apparently decided that the risk of not enough demand was worth it to take advantage of the density while they could.

[BuildingScout]

The point has come up earlier, and it's worth stating it again. A big reason why all this student development is happening now isn't because of market demand, but because the new City of Waterloo Official Plan is changing the density calculations, reducing how many bedrooms can be built on these properties. So these developers apparently decided that the risk of not enough demand was worth it to take advantage of the density while they could.

Correct, by my computations developers might have pushed forward two to three years worth of construction to beat the change in density. The way current numbers are, even if universities froze entrance figures at present levels this would still require a larger number of beds as smaller cohorts graduate and are replaced by present size cohorts.