U/C Charles & Benton Parking Structure | 18 m | 6 fl [Archive]

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UrbanWaterloo

12-24-2009, 12:40 AM

Charles & Benton Parking Structure
Charles Street East & Benton Street, Kitchener
www.downtownkitchener.ca/news/parkinggarage
Website (http://www.kitchener.ca/en/livinginkitchener/Charles_and_Benton_street_parking_garage.asp)

http://www.downtownkitchener.ca/sites/cityofkitchener/images/photos/charlesbenton.gif

UrbanWaterloo

12-24-2009, 01:12 AM

http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item14403_dts-08-083_-_charles___benton_parking_structure.pdf
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item14403_dts-08-083-1_-_charles___benton_-__business_case.pdf
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item14403_dts-08-083-2_-_charles___benton_analysis.pdf
RECOMMENDATIONS:

That the development of a 500 space above ground parking structure on an existing City owned surface parking lot at the north west corner of Charles and Benton Streets be approved; and further,

That the consultant selection process be waived and that the firm of Read Jones Christoffersen be retained to modify the existing design of a parking structure for this site; and further,

That ground floor retail be included in the design of this structure on the Benton Street frontage; and further,

That a Letter of Intent be agreed to by the Province of Ontario and the City of Kitchener outlining the commitment of each organization to this project, subject to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

The consolidation of three Provincial court facilities into one development on the block bound by Frederick Street, Weber Street, Scott Street and Duke Street will result in the development of a 340,000 sq ft court building and bring new employment to the core.

The Province will supply 290 parking spaces on site for staff and have agreed to contribute $6,475,000 as cash in lieu payment for the 185 remaining spaces required to meet the parking requirements of the zoning bylaw. The estimated number of spaces have been based on initial design concepts and will be refined at the site plan submission stage. In addition, approximately 370 existing surface parking spaces will be lost due to the development and a portion of them will need to be accommodated in a new facility within a reasonable distance.

Construction of the new courthouse will begin at the end of 2009 or early in 2010 and is contingent on the City being able to assist in accommodating the parking needs of existing and future customers of this site.

A number of potential parking options were considered to address this demand and the preferred option is to construct a 500 space above ground structure on a City owned surface parking lot at the north west corner of Benton Street and Charles Street.

Intensification options were considered, including the provision of ground floor retail along the Benton Street frontage and allowing for the future development of a residential or office use above the structure. To assist in determining if greater intensification is feasible, the City’s real estate provider, Coldwell Banker Peter Benninger Realty, was retained to gauge the market for this type of development. Their analysis indicated that while ground floor retail is reasonable, the market for residential and office uses above the structure in the future was not strong, and the cost and risk that the City would need to incur could not be justified.

A functional design and tender package had been prepared in 2002 in anticipation of constructing this garage at that time. Due to cost overruns as a result of the tender, it was never built, but the design with minor modifications is still reasonable and can be built within the time lines required to satisfy the demand for parking from the future courthouse site. The firm of
Read Jones Christoffersen, who were the lead consultants on the original design, are recommended to continue with this project and that the consultant selection process be waived. Their intimate knowledge of the design, the availability of drawings and their commitment to completing a project started a number of years ago will prove to be the most efficient approach.

Funding for this project will be a combination of the cash in lieu payment from the Province along with a debenture for the remaining costs.

BACKGROUND:

The Province has announced that a new consolidated courthouse will be developed on lands bounded by Frederick Street, Weber Street, Scott Street and Duke Street in an area that is currently used for surface parking.

The Province will develop approximately 290 parking spaces underground, but will still require an additional 185 spaces to meet our Zoning Bylaw parking requirements. They have agreed to contribute $6,475,000 in cash in lieu payments to offset this parking shortfall.

In addition, approximately 370 existing surface parking spaces will be lost from the development of the Courthouse, which will need to be accommodated within reasonable proximity.

http://www.kitchener.ca/charlesbenton/
Charles Benton Parking Garage Construction

See alternative parking during construction - http://www.kitchener.ca/pdf/parking_map.pdf

Charles and Benton Update May 11, 2009 - http://www.kitchener.ca/pdf/parking_charles_benton_2009_05_11.pdf

The Charles and Benton lot will be closed Feb. 17, 2009 - Spring 2010 to construct a 500-space parking lot. The City of Kitchener will build a new six-storey, 500 space, above-ground parking garage at the northwest corner of Charles and Benton Streets.

The garage, which will help meet a growing demand for parking in the downtown – including some of the parking needs of the new downtown courthouse – will cost approximately $16 million, with the work scheduled to be completed by Spring 2010. The province will help fund the construction of the parking garage by providing the city with $6.475 million for cash in lieu of parking.

The garage will include new retail space on the main floor of the garage facing Benton Street. The design of the new garage will also include the concept of the warehouse theme with large windows based on prominent buildings from other areas of the downtown, the use of red brick and the inclusion of the metal structural screen for a portion of the Charles Street façade.

Tentative Construction Timeline:
- Lot closes for construction Feb. 17, 2009 – Spring 2010.
- Garage grand opening Spring 2010

UrbanWaterloo

12-24-2009, 01:20 AM

City approves $16 million parking garage
June 17, 2008
RECORD STAFF - KITCHENER

City councillors yesterday approved a $16 million parking garage for the corner of Benton and Charles streets that could be open by November 2009.

City staff said the 500-space garage is needed soon because the Ontario government has announced it will build a 340,000-square-foot courthouse on the block bounded by Duke, Scott, Weber and Frederick streets.

The courthouse requires 690 parking spaces.

The province will build 290 parking spaces on the site of the new courthouse, and it is counting on the city to provide the remainder or risk losing the project.

"Should the city not be able to provide the parking as stated above, then the province could move to the next preferred site. Staff are not aware of where that site is, but it is not within downtown

"Kitchener and could result in the closure of both existing court houses and the movement of ancillary jobs that support them," says a report prepared by city staff.

The province has agreed to provide $6.5 million for remaining 185 spaces it needs for the courthouse, and the city wants to use that money to help pay for a new parking garage at Benton and Charles streets.

"Construction of the new courthouse will begin at the end of 2009 or early in 2010 and is contingent on the city being able to assist in accommodating the parking needs of existing and future customers of this site," says the staff report.

One of the downtown's biggest landlords is the CORA Group, which sold the province the land for the new courthouse. CORA needs 370 parking spaces to replace the ones it will lose in the deal.

"CORA can accommodate a portion of theses spaces within their existing parking facilities, but will require 200 monthly spaces in the proposed Charles and Benton parking garage to meet their contractual obligations with existing tenants," says the city report.

"They have committed to a 20-year lease for 200 monthly parking spaces at full market value in the proposed structure," says the report.

For years city staff have wanted to build a parking garage at Charles and Benton streets, where the city now owns a parking lot.

But when the project went out for tender in 2002 the bids came in so far over budget the project was put on hold.

In one day city councillors approved the spending of nearly $25 million on downtown parking garages -- $16 million for the above-ground garage at Benton and Charles, and $8.75 million for 250 spaces in an underground garage to be built on Centre Block, which is near City Hall.

Long-stalled parking garage plan gains speed
July 02, 2008
Terry Pender, RECORD STAFF - KITCHENER

City councillors are moving quickly to build a 500-spot parking garage at Charles and Benton streets in the downtown.

And all taxpayers -- not just drivers -- will pay for the $15-million garage, now that council has rejected setting up a parking authority to help with the financing.

To speed things along, councillors waived the requirement to seek competitive proposals before choosing a consultant on the project. The consultant has already been paid about $400,000.

The city will borrow $9 million to pay for the garage, which is to have shops at ground level. When interest payments are included, the city's share of the cost rises to $15 million.

The province will kick in $6 million, an inducement that prompted the city to revive dormant plans for a parking garage on that corner.

Plans for the garage at Benton and Charles surfaced after the province announced it will build a 340,00-square-foot courthouse on the block bounded by Scott, Weber, Frederick and Duke streets. It will need 690 parking spaces.

Coun. John Gazzola proposed establishing a parking authority, with the idea of using parking revenue to pay for parking facilities.

"And if we did that, then the users would have to pay for it, and it wouldn't impact the taxpayers," Gazzola said to council recently.

"On one side of our mouths, we are arguing about the environment and how we have to get people out of their cars, and then we are building parking garages for them," Gazzola said.

Mayor Carl Zehr said he, too, would like to see a parking authority. But parking rates are not high enough to bring in the kind of revenue that could support parking operations, he said.

"It has to make financial sense so that it has a reasonable chance of standing on its own," Zehr said.

Coun. Berry Vrbanovic said it doesn't make sense to create a parking authority that would need tax dollars anyway.

The city plans to call for construction bids as soon as possible and hopes work on the garage will begin in November.

Kitchener parking operations have long been heavily subsidized by taxpayers. Parking operations were budgeted in 2007 for a deficit of $1.8 million.

The deficit would increase if council agreed to provide more free parking in the core, which some downtown merchants are now lobbying for.

The province plans to build 290 parking spaces as part of the courthouse plan and is counting on the city to provide the other 400 spaces. City staff say the province could move the courthouse to another municipality if Kitchener doesn't agree.

Construction of the courthouse will start in late 2009 or early 2010. The city aims to have the new parking garage open by November 2009.

The garage at Charles and Benton streets is not the only one on the books.

The city also plans to pay $8.75 million for 250 public spaces on the first level of an underground parking garage on Centre Block, which is next to City Hall. But many of those spaces could be occupied by the faculty and students at the nearby Wilfrid Laurier University graduate school of social work. To attract the school to the core, the city agreed to provide 175 parking spaces for the faculty and students at the subsidized price of $20 a month per space.

The garage at Benton and Charles will be built with no public consultations, something Mark Garner, head of the Kitchener Downtown Business Association, doesn't like.

"We should have been in the loop and communicated with when this was going on," Garner said.

Downtown merchants believe there is a shortage of parking that has to be solved, he said.

The garages at Benton and Charles and on Centre Block should look after those concerns, he said.

Now that councillors have approved those two garages, there is a pressing need for a debate about long-term plans for parking and transportation downtown, Garner said.

"I always thought it would be great to have King Street as an entire, I wouldn't say like the Red Mile in Calgary, but a closed-off street where it's just walking and caf?s."

Critics who see adding parking to downtowns as a waste of resources weren't impressed with Kitchener's plans.

"The future is not going to be about car storage," said James Howard Kunstler, author of The Geography of Nowhere and a board member of the non-profit Project for Public Spaces.

Cynthia Nitkin, also of Project for Public Spaces, who has spoken in Waterloo Region, suggested a parking problem is a healthy sign.

"It means people want to stop and shop."

But parking shortages are often just a perception, not a reality, she said. In fact, Kitchener's consultants say about 20 per cent of the public parking spaces downtown are empty at the busiest times of the day.

Instead of building parking garages or providing more free parking on the public's dime, the city and downtown merchants should worry more about product selection, marketing, displays, organizing festivals and other programming for public spaces, Nitkin said.

In Canada, Calgary hasn't built a parking garage in the core in more than 25 years. Parkades were built around the downtown, and people can ride the light rail for free in the core.

"Once you start tipping away from the car, a lot of interesting things happen," Nitkin said.

BENTON AND CHARLES

For 45 years, the land is a surface lot with 81 spaces -- 21 monthly, 60 hourly.
In 2002, city seeks bids for construction of a 525-space, five-storey parking garage on the site. The estimated cost is $8.1 million, and when the lowest tender comes in at $12.4 million, the project is shelved.
In 2003, Kitchener calls for expressions of interest in building the garage with city help. City offers to provide $3 million to $4 million, waive development and permit fees, and co-ordinate parking rates at city-owned lots. No takers.
In June 2008, the province announces it will build a new courthouse downtown if the city provides 400 parking spaces.
June 2008, the city announces a parking garage will go up at Benton and Charles. Public hearings, normally required for downtown projects of that size, will not be held.

Kitchener council approves deals for parking garage
September 16, 2008
Record staff - Web edition
http://news.therecord.com/News/article/415558

KITCHENER - City councillors approved deals Monday night to accommodate users of a new provincial courthouse and CORA Group employees in a planned downtown parking garage.

The new garage, at the corner of Charles and Benton streets, will provide 400 hourly-paid spaces to meet the demands of the courthouse.

In exchange, the province will provide about $6.5 million toward the garage's $15-million construction.

Councillors also agreed to lease another 200 parking spaces to the CORA Group, which is being displaced by the construction of the future courthouse.

Kitchener embarks on parking expansion
Project will add 500 spots at Benton and Charles; funds to be borrowed for Centre Block parking
December 22, 2008
Terry Pender, RECORD STAFF - KITCHENER
http://news.therecord.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/462271

A company has been hired to build a downtown-parking garage with 500 spaces at the corner of Benton and Charles streets.

Melloul-Blamey Construction Inc. of Waterloo won the contract, bidding $15.3 million to build the multi-storey structure on city-owned land.

For more than eight years city bureaucrats have wanted to build a parking garage in the core. City councillors always balked at the costs, but that changed when the province announced it would provide $6.5 million.

"These are dollars that the taxpayers of the City of Kitchener do not have to incur at this point in time," Coun. Berry Vrbanovic, chair of the finance committee, said of the provincial funds.

The province wants to ensure there is adequate parking for a new provincial courthouse being built on the block bounded by Frederick, Duke, Scott and Weber streets.

In 2009, the city will borrow an additional $9.5 million to build the parking garage.

"We knew that we needed to build a garage in the downtown, the timing of it right now is directly related to the provincial court house," Vrbanovic said.

The Charles and Benton parking garage will include 2,000 square feet of retail space facing Benton and some secure bicycle parking inside.

Many of the parking spaces are already taken. The Cora Group, a large property-management and development firm based in the downtown, will lease 200 spaces in the garage.

When interest payments are included, the garage will cost about $22 million. But Vrbanovic said parking revenues should pay for the garage.

The city also plans to borrow $5.5 million in 2009 for an underground parking garage on Centre Block, which is bounded by King, Young, Duke and Ontario streets. If the block is redeveloped with condominiums, the city wants to be ready with its share of the costs for the parking garage, Vrbanovic said.

"This is simply setting aside funds for that project," Vrbanovic said.

City officials continue negotiations for a development agreement with Andrin Limited of Brampton. The city wants that company to redevelop the western half of the block, next to City Hall.

Plans call for 385 condominiums, four new buildings, a park, renovation of the Mayfair Hotel and the building next door into a boutique hotel, and an underground parking garage.

But the development agreement between the city and Andrin, which lays out the staging and timing of the construction, has been delayed twice.

"My understanding is staff hope to have an agreement coming forward in the early part of '09, and things will hopefully be getting on the road thereafter," Vrbanovic said.

The use of tax dollars for parking on Centre Block has long been controversial for Coun. John Gazzola.

Currently, the city provides subsidized parking for the faculty and students at the nearby Wilfrid Laurier University graduate school of social work. To attract the grad school to the core, the city agreed to provide 175 parking spaces at $20 a month.

That subsidy will cost about $900,000 over the next 10 years. Gazzola says that's too much.

"When does that stop, or does it go on in perpetuity?" Gazzola asked at a recent budget meeting.

Carla Ladd, the city's chief administrative officer, said the city is talking to Laurier officials about parking issues. So far, the university is using only about 89 of the 175 spaces allotted to it. When the underground-parking garage is built, the university may be given fewer subsidized spaces than it now enjoys.

The city wants 250 spaces in the underground-parking garage on Centre Block. At $35,000 per spot those spaces will cost $8.75 million. The city will use a combination of land and money to pay for those parking spaces.

The city is selling the public land on Centre Block for $3.1 million. That will be deducted from the cost of building the garage. The city will also borrow $5.5 million in 2009 to help pay for those 250 spaces.

Kitchener's big dig
March 10, 2009
Record staff - Web edition

Work begins on a parking garage at Charles and Benton streets in Kitchener amid wet weather.

This photo looks west from Benton Street, with the Canada Trust tower visible at top right. The city and province are paying for the multi-storey, $15.3 million garage. Many of the 500 spots will be for the new provincial courthouse being built downtown.

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/9a/c1/bfe3fad24b6aa963d35877724b88.jpeg

UrbanWaterloo

12-24-2009, 01:36 AM

spaceamoeba (flickr)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spaceamoeba/3792970181/
Taken on August 1, 2009:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/3792970181_378a0d4c72_b.jpg

jcollins
October 31, 2009:
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2159.jpg?t=1257004365

jcollins
November 7, 2009:
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/IM000004.jpg?t=1257708127

UrbanWaterloo

12-24-2009, 01:36 AM

jcollins
November 14, 2009:
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2203.jpg?t=1258225220
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2211.jpg?t=1258225534

Spokes

01-09-2010, 01:26 PM

Some pictures by me today.

They're getting ready to start the next level. By my count that will be #4. The front where the retail is going is also starting to take some more shape.

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/IM000052.jpg?t=1263061519
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/IM000059.jpg?t=1263061541

UrbanWaterloo

01-16-2010, 10:30 PM

January 15, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Janua-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Janua-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Janua-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Janua-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Janua-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-January1.jpg

RangersFan

01-20-2010, 10:49 PM

This one seems to be coming along quite quick, and for a parking garage I think it looks excellent.

Spokes

01-20-2010, 11:10 PM

Looks really good. I cant figure out the Benton side though. There's the tall glassed in part, that's a stairway I assume. Then is there retail on either side, or is it all on the right side of the stairway?

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 12:39 PM

pictures taken by me today Feb 3,2010 I didn't realize pictures were taken so recently of this project so this post maybe a little redundant.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB2.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB3.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB4.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB5.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB6.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB7.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB8.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB9.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB10.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB11.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB12.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

02-27-2010, 03:08 AM

February 26, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Febru-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Febru-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-Febru-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-February.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

03-03-2010, 11:09 AM

March 1, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-6.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-7.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March120.jpg

urbandreamer

03-04-2010, 12:17 AM

Is there going to be retail on the ground floor?

I think this structure reinforces my stereotype of downtown Kitchener: Welcome to Kitchener, the world's biggest parking lot!

jay

03-04-2010, 08:22 AM

Yes there is. If you go back a to the start of the thread you can see the renderings. It looks pretty good actually.

Spokes

03-04-2010, 08:59 AM

It says theres 2000 sq ft, will that typically be one retail unit or two?

UrbanWaterloo

03-04-2010, 11:10 AM

It's going to be two retail units, one of them being two-floors iirc from past Downtown Advisory Committee meetings. The city looked at putting retail along Charles Street as well, but due to the slope there was going to be a significant additional cost.

Overall I'm pleased with this development. As a public transit rider/supporter, it's not as though I'll be using this parking garage much myself; and hopefully I won't be using the courthouse either :p. However, having an expanded employment base and a multi-level garage, is much preferred than two surface parking lots, which was the alternative in the near/medium future. Actually the alternative was worse, it wasn't just keeping those surface lots, it was also losing a large number of downtown employees (as the courthouse would have moved elsewhere).

Now I am a big believer in this region, but reality tells me our transit system isn't as good as the big boys (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) and won't be for the foreseeable future. Yet I still see new parking garages added in those fair cities, which tells me Waterloo Region is a long way off from ever having a moratorium on new parking spaces in our urban zones. That is unless we also want a moratorium on new development, which I'm absolutely not in favour of.

Shawn

03-04-2010, 11:23 AM

I'm also all about better parking downtown - (ok, I'm not soliciting argument from pedestrians, transit users and environmentalists - having suburbs and private car users is still a fact of life in western culture) I'm just saying anything that promotes employment downtown (such as employee parking) and supports shopping & dining downtown I'm all for.

I do have a question though - Was a structure that was more "underground" ever discussed? Making a 4 to 6 level underground parking facility would be much more aesthetically pleasing (urbandreamer might like it), and would also leave the surface area free for retail, commercial, residential or mixed development. Was there a problem such as a high water table or other geographic issues? Was it purely cost? Was it even discussed?

I'm not at all familiar with the history of this project. Thanks.

Spokes

03-04-2010, 11:51 AM

I think a lot of it might be cost? And how much the province was willing to contribute.

I like this project for a few reasons, one the retail while nothing major, is nice. Two, I think it's going to look pretty good for a parking garage. And finally, the biggest reason I like it, is that it got us the courthouse. Without this, I dont think we see the courthouse project come.

RangersFan

03-04-2010, 08:48 PM

metropolis

03-04-2010, 11:03 PM

It seems that for a parking structure they put a lot of planning into the design. I believe I had read that at one point they considered reinforcing the building to accomdate a possible future office building built right on top of the structure.

This is correct. Future development potential over top of the garage is possible as the structure has been engineered this way. This was all in the original council minutes for this project.

Spokes

03-04-2010, 11:06 PM

Do you remember how many storeys could be added?

RangersFan

03-05-2010, 05:33 AM

Intensification options were considered, including the provision of ground floor retail along the Benton Street frontage and allowing for the future development of a residential or office use above the structure. To assist in determining if greater intensification is feasible, the City’s real estate provider, Coldwell Banker Peter Benninger Realty, was retained to gauge the market for this type of development. Their analysis indicated that while ground floor retail is reasonable, the market for residential and office uses above the structure in the future was not strong, and the cost and risk that the City would need to incur could not be justified.

RangersFan

03-18-2010, 02:05 PM

March 18, 2010
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB19.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB17.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB16.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB15.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB14.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CB18.jpg

Spokes

03-18-2010, 03:38 PM

Thanks for all these pictures!!

On the surface it feels like this project is taking a long time to complete, but after thinking about it some more, its a huge project. Looking forward to it's completion (although summer 2010 doesn't seem likely)

RangersFan

03-18-2010, 05:41 PM

Yea I am thinking this "opening summer 2010" is not happening.

Spokes

03-18-2010, 07:00 PM

That being said, we'll see what kind of difference the nice weather makes. This has all (or mostly) been done during the fall/winter so they could make up some ground. Im still skeptical.

UrbanWaterloo

03-27-2010, 03:09 AM

March 26, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-10.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-9.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-8.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March262.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

04-04-2010, 12:55 PM

Another angle to add...

April 1, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April120.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-1.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

04-23-2010, 06:54 PM

April 22, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-6.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April222.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-10.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-9.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-8.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-7.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

04-23-2010, 07:00 PM

Quite a bit of progress in the past month and a half. In the future I'll need to find a higher vantage point to get a downtown skyline shot from this angle.

March 1 vs. April 22

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-March-6.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-April-8.jpg

garthdanlor

04-24-2010, 08:26 PM

Spokes

04-24-2010, 10:54 PM

I know it's way too late to complain, but I'm really not a fan of this structure. This is pretty important intersection in the Downtown (or could be) and it really deserves something better than a parking garage. I know that new businesses and institutions are demanding increased parking in the city centre and this is better than more surface lots, but couldn't we have at least built it elsewhere (maybe between the Tannery and King Centre) or put it underground (I know, expensive)...

Not only that, but what will happen when the LRT runs down Charles? Won't this affect access to the garage from the opposite lane?

That lot that is between the Tannery and Manulife belongs to Manulife and I doubt they'd part with it. And as for underground, I think this was brought up but there were some kind of issues with that. As much as it's not ideal, its designed quite well in my opinion, and has retail so it's not THAT bad. Sure could have been better, but the core could use some parking if people are going to push to develop surface lots. And probably most importantly, a lot here got us the court house. That in my mind makes it worthwhile.

As for LRT, not really sure, Im sure they've thought about it and it'll still be accessable.

Urbanomicon

04-24-2010, 11:11 PM

garthdanlor

04-24-2010, 11:37 PM

That lot that is between the Tannery and Manulife belongs to Manulife and I doubt they'd part with it. And as for underground, I think this was brought up but there were some kind of issues with that. As much as it's not ideal, its designed quite well in my opinion, and has retail so it's not THAT bad. Sure could have been better, but the core could use some parking if people are going to push to develop surface lots. And probably most importantly, a lot here got us the court house. That in my mind makes it worthwhile.

As for LRT, not really sure, Im sure they've thought about it and it'll still be accessable.

Yeah I'm not opposed to a garage, it's just the prominent location.

Assuming the main entrance for the garage is off Charles (is it?), you'd have to cross the LRT's right of way so it would at least complicate the issue of entering/leaving the garage.

Spokes

04-24-2010, 11:41 PM

If they do eventually build a multi-mode transit station at King and Victoria, I would rather see this parking garage there. It would allow people to "park and ride" to anywhere in the region or take GO or VIA elsewhere.

Admittedly they could still take the LRT with the parking garage in its current location, but this may become inconvenient if they are carrying a lot of luggage.

Im sure they would include parking in that as well. At least I'd hope so.

I don't think this garage is going to have a ton of open space for consumers during the day. I get the impression that the majority of the spots are already spoken for.

Spokes

04-24-2010, 11:43 PM

Yeah I'm not opposed to a garage, it's just the prominent location.

Assuming the main entrance for the garage is off Charles (is it?), you'd have to cross the LRT's right of way so it would at least complicate the issue of entering/leaving the garage.

Ya, it would definitely complicate things that's for sure.

It's not the most prominant location though. I mean it's not the least, but not the most. It's probably the most appropriate location though given what it's primary purpose was.

UrbanWaterloo

05-31-2010, 06:18 PM

Brick installation has begun here too.

May 31, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-May31201.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-May31-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-May31-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-May31-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-May31-4.jpg

Spokes

05-31-2010, 08:54 PM

Unfortunately that brick was installed a couple weeks ago, but Im not sure why it's stopped. Maybe just the brick layers just trying it out before coming on full bore.

KevinL

06-07-2010, 06:09 PM

Structural work seems to be nearly done, a lot of the finished top storey is now exposed. I look forward to seeing the full facade treatment.

UrbanWaterloo

06-23-2010, 02:34 AM

June 22, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2220.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-June2-6.jpg

cambridge-city-boy

06-23-2010, 02:50 AM

LLooks good. Could have looked better. Kind looks like a generic building. It would have been nice if the design was a little more unique. I rate it 7 out of 10.

Spokes

07-07-2010, 10:13 PM

A good update over @ "Your Kitchener (http://www.kitchener.ca/pdf/yourkitnews_2010_jul_aug.pdf)" (p3). Some highlights include:

Public art wrapping around the Charles street side onto Benton st.
King st style street scaping continuing along Benton to the corner of Benton and Charles
Completion slated for late October

Spokes

07-19-2010, 10:20 AM

As per the new Urban Design Guidelines, they've painted the ceiling of each level white to brighten things up. They've gotten up to the 4th floor done I think. Still not sure why they haven't started laying brick.

KevinL

07-19-2010, 03:24 PM

Still not sure why they haven't started laying brick.

I can confirm as of this afternoon, they are laying brick. They've started on the outer face by Charles, on the corner nearest to Queen.

Spokes

07-19-2010, 05:15 PM

I can confirm as of this afternoon, they are laying brick. They've started on the outer face by Charles, on the corner nearest to Queen.

Great news!!! I always found it wierd that they started up by Charles/Benton and then stopped.

UrbanWaterloo

07-22-2010, 04:02 PM

Thanks for the tip KevinL!

July 22, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-July222010-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-July222010-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-July222010-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-July222010-4.jpg

Spokes

07-23-2010, 09:54 AM

Looks like the crane is coming down!! Sad to see it go from the skyline.

Spokes

07-27-2010, 10:23 AM

July 23, 2010 - A few shots of the crane coming down

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/DSCF2582.jpg?t=1280240511

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/DSCF2584.jpg?t=1280240512

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/DSCF2586.jpg?t=1280240514

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/DSCF2587.jpg?t=1280240515

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/DSCF2588.jpg?t=1280240518

LisaH

07-27-2010, 11:33 AM

Here's a couple of car parks to chew over -
http://www.archdaily.com/40533/in-progress-1111-lincoln-road-herzog-de-meuron/
http://www.archdaily.com/29874/veranda-car-park-paul-de-ruiter/

Spokes

07-27-2010, 11:36 AM

Here's a couple of car parks to chew over -
http://www.archdaily.com/40533/in-progress-1111-lincoln-road-herzog-de-meuron/
http://www.archdaily.com/29874/veranda-car-park-paul-de-ruiter/

Im not sure why you posted these as I see no connection between them and the Charles Benton Parking Structure. Were you maybe comparing them?

jay

07-27-2010, 01:37 PM

I was wondering the same thing...

taylortbb

07-27-2010, 01:55 PM

bcwessel

07-27-2010, 02:17 PM

Spokes

07-27-2010, 04:36 PM

I think the point was that this thing could look a lot better. We don't seem to aim very high in our design standards.

I'm also the last person to advocate for more parking, but I think in this case they should have added a few more levels. That way we could have parking in a smaller number of taller structures rather than having parking garages everywhere.

Ya that would make sense, but there was no way to know since she posted a few links and nothing else.

And it definitely could look a lot better, but that being said, I think it looks pretty good. I think it's a bit unrealistic for this stage in our city's growth to want/expect an internationally accredited architect to be the one designing a parking garage. Not yet at least. If we're comparing Kitchener's and Miami's parking garages does that mean we're also comparing Kitchener to Miami? It just doesn't make sense.

I definitely do agree with you about increased levels, I always thought the same, especially given how much of this is dedicated to the courthouse.

Spokes

07-27-2010, 11:12 PM

Here's a pretty good clip about the structure in Miami, with some nice insights about what parking garages can potentially be as articulated by our old friends Andres:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtQG426aJes

Very interesting concept of a parking garage being public space. Hadn't thought of it that way. I think for that to be the case you need to have a strong existing urban foundation. We're a few years from that.

LisaH

07-28-2010, 08:39 AM

LisaH

07-28-2010, 03:36 PM

Very interesting concept of a parking garage being public space. Hadn't thought of it that way. I think for that to be the case you need to have a strong existing urban foundation. We're a few years from that.
But you know the Duke Street parking garage still manages to pull something out of the bag, and that was even earlier in Kitchener's development. I don't mean to disrupt your threads, sorry, but I do think higher expectations would really help here in KW.

Spokes

07-28-2010, 05:11 PM

But you know the Duke Street parking garage still manages to pull something out of the bag, and that was even earlier in Kitchener's development. I don't mean to disrupt your threads, sorry, but I do think higher expectations would really help here in KW.

I think higher expectations would help too, but I don't think they'll fly. Not yet at least. It's worth a try but developers would for the most part want to take the cheaper option. There needs to be a way to force them not to.

LisaH

07-29-2010, 11:43 AM

I think higher expectations would help too, but I don't think they'll fly. Not yet at least. It's worth a try but developers would for the most part want to take the cheaper option. There needs to be a way to force them not to. You know good design is not always the cheaper option, people just think it is. Shame is a good strategy though and a design savvy populace as well as just speaking up when you can. How can anyone live with - building in Kitchener is always going to be poor, things will be better one day...Deferred expectations for how many lifetimes?

Rowe

08-03-2010, 10:14 PM

Spokes

08-03-2010, 10:40 PM

I'm on the side of a missed opportunity. This is some prime downtown land and its a retail-parking garage. Will it become like Market Square?

Detroit does a lot of development like this and... its Detroit. But Kitchener and the Region is a somewhat unique place in Canada so maybe this parking garage will be successful in urban revitalization.

For me it's already successful because this garage was one of the final things that secured the Consolidated Courthouse (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/28-Waterloo-Region-Consolidated-Courthouse-28-m-7-fl-Completion-March-2013). I see it as a good trade off.

Could it have been built elsewhere? Probably, Im just not sure where. I would guess they wanted the garage fairly close to the courthouse.

As for the Market Square comparison, my guess would be no since this will have commercial right out on the street where as Market Square has it's retail tucked away inside and not visible. There's little to no foot traffic in there. (I think it should be converted to all office/institutional space, retail isnt happening there)

Rowe

08-03-2010, 11:00 PM

For me it's already successful because this garage was one of the final things that secured the Consolidated Courthouse (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/28-Waterloo-Region-Consolidated-Courthouse-28-m-7-fl-Completion-March-2013). I see it as a good trade off.

Could it have been built elsewhere? Probably, Im just not sure where. I would guess they wanted the garage fairly close to the courthouse.

As for the Market Square comparison, my guess would be no since this will have commercial right out on the street where as Market Square has it's retail tucked away inside and not visible. There's little to no foot traffic in there. (I think it should be converted to all office/institutional space, retail isnt happening there)

I'm all about people not only visiting downtown but living there too. Maybe at some point they will build housing on top of the garage.

Its true about the courthouse and I do agree that it was a good trade off, but I feel that it could of been a better opportunty to have more people living in the core of downtown.

I also agree on the traffic which was why I thought it may become more like Market Sqaure. But if retail were to work here it would have to be a major anchor company (Wal Mart Express?). I just hope it is a business that will be like Google Canada which can bring other investment and business to the area.

jay

08-03-2010, 11:49 PM

The city built the parking garage with provincial money and it would have opened up a can of worms of debates if they put housing over it. Nothing is wrong with this parking garage with the current state of downtown Kitchener. It has retail and I think some people dream to much on "what could be".

I don't get the market square reference as this was built for the courthouse. It will be used, especially in the future, which is what so many people like to talk about.

Spokes

08-04-2010, 07:36 AM

I'm all about people not only visiting downtown but living there too. Maybe at some point they will build housing on top of the garage.

Its true about the courthouse and I do agree that it was a good trade off, but I feel that it could of been a better opportunty to have more people living in the core of downtown.

I also agree on the traffic which was why I thought it may become more like Market Sqaure. But if retail were to work here it would have to be a major anchor company (Wal Mart Express?). I just hope it is a business that will be like Google Canada which can bring other investment and business to the area.

Oh don't get me wrong, I am too, but right now that's not realistic. It's a "cart before the horse" type situation. You want people to live and work downtown, so there needs to be lots of jobs and housing. Well housing usually comes when people already work and there's lots of business around, but business likes to open up when there's lots of people around. So what caves first. The courthouse will open up, and it'll result in more housing options and inevitably more people living downtown. Right now there just aren't those options available.

As for this being housing, sure housing would have worked, but think about ALL the other housing projects opening up right around the corner.

As for the business being successful, first off, don't expect either of those companies. There's 2000 sq ft of retail split between two units. I don't think it has to be an anchor company to be successful though. It's in a good spot, it's got good visibility, most things should do well there. I don't think it's going to be something major but that doesn't mean it cant be something that makes the area better and therefore is a bit of a magnet for other businesses.

mpd618

08-04-2010, 11:04 AM

Oh don't get me wrong, I am too, but right now that's not realistic. It's a "cart before the horse" type situation. You want people to live and work downtown, so there needs to be lots of jobs and housing. Well housing usually comes when people already work and there's lots of business around, but business likes to open up when there's lots of people around. So what caves first. The courthouse will open up, and it'll result in more housing options and inevitably more people living downtown. Right now there just aren't those options available.

As much as the Kitchener CBD isn't the only employment area in the city, I do believe there's a fair number more people working downtown than living downtown.

Spokes

08-04-2010, 04:54 PM

As much as the Kitchener CBD isn't the only employment area in the city, I do believe there's a fair number more people working downtown than living downtown.

I think you're definitely right. I dont think it's fair to expect the numbers to flip flop either, not that they won't. You'll never get all your downtown workers to live there, you can however get a large percentage of them to.

UrbanWaterloo

08-06-2010, 12:20 PM

August 4, 2010

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-1a.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-2a.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-2b.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-3a.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-3b.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-4b.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-5.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-6b.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-8a.jpg

Spokes

08-06-2010, 03:38 PM

Starting to look a bit like the rendering....

http://www.downtownkitchener.ca/sites/cityofkitchener/images/photos/charlesbenton.gif

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August42010-4b.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

08-19-2010, 01:38 AM

August 17, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/CharlesBentonParkingGarage-August172010.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

09-14-2010, 11:02 AM

September 11, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20September%2011%2C%202010%20-%201a%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20September%2011%2C%202010%20-%202%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20September%2011%2C%202010%20-%204%20Resized.JPG

BuildingScout

09-14-2010, 11:23 AM

For a parking structure it is not bad looking at all. Not very pedestrian friendly, which means Charles St. will still be a dump but certainly better than the parking lot that used to be there.

Rowe

09-17-2010, 12:38 PM

I'm starting to like this project more and more each time I see it. I'll need to see it with the glass. Hopefully they will illuminate the glass cladding.

Spokes

09-20-2010, 10:46 AM

Totally off topic from this thread, but one of the pictures above made me realize, they need to get new lighting on Charles St.

DHLawrence

09-20-2010, 06:11 PM

Maybe a street redecoration will come to pass when they start the LRT construction work. If you're going to dig up the road, you might as well get all the utilities and infrastructure done at once.

KevinL

09-20-2010, 06:34 PM

True! No sense doing a job like that twice in near succession.

bcwessel

09-20-2010, 07:02 PM

Maybe a street redecoration will come to pass when they start the LRT construction work. If you're going to dig up the road, you might as well get all the utilities and infrastructure done at once.

While I must admit to being pretty happy with the way King Street turned out, many new urbanists caution against investment in the 5B's (bricks, banners, balloons, benches and bollards). The main argument opposing street decoration is that it is wasted money on a street which lacks the necessary dimensions to provide enclosure and to define space (i.e. the most important features of active urban streets). In fact, some theorists go so far as to suggest that these kinds of accoutrements actually detract from the quality of life existent on a particular street. The logic behind this assertion being that in urban areas, properly populated by ground level retail destinations, unnecessary street ornamentation draws attention away from the actual street by bringing focus to the decorations themselves. A store has only a few seconds to be noticed by passing pedestrians, and any distraction can be the difference between a drop-in sale and a store devoid of incidental customers.

I understand that street reconstruction projects are designed to attract more pedestrian traffic (which is certainly better for business than auto traffic), but I think better quality architecture and a streetscape with fewer gaps would do more to promote a revitalized Charles than anything else. Perhaps a first step should include actively addressing the redevelopment potential of the south side of Queen and Charles -- potentially a more worthwhile investment of public dollars than more 5B's treatments.

panamaniac

09-20-2010, 07:40 PM

...... it is wasted money on a street which lacks the necessary dimensions to provide enclosure and to define space (i.e. the most important features of active urban streets)..... .

For the amateurs among us, how does one identify such a street? What are the "necessary dimensions to provide enclosure"? Although long and narrow for a commercial corridor, Downtown King St seems pretty well defined as I understand the term. This seems to relate to something other than the gaps you refer to in your post, which I agree are a problem.

Edit: Sorry, bcwessel. On re-reading your post I see that you were referring to Charles Street rather than King. By comparing the two, even I can see what you were referring to.

Spokes

09-20-2010, 10:41 PM

While I must admit to being pretty happy with the way King Street turned out, many new urbanists caution against investment in the 5B's (bricks, banners, balloons, benches and bollards). The main argument opposing street decoration is that it is wasted money on a street which lacks the necessary dimensions to provide enclosure and to define space (i.e. the most important features of active urban streets). In fact, some theorists go so far as to suggest that these kinds of accoutrements actually detract from the quality of life existent on a particular street. The logic behind this assertion being that in urban areas, properly populated by ground level retail destinations, unnecessary street ornamentation draws attention away from the actual street by bringing focus to the decorations themselves. A store has only a few seconds to be noticed by passing pedestrians, and any distraction can be the difference between a drop-in sale and a store devoid of incidental customers.

I understand that street reconstruction projects are designed to attract more pedestrian traffic (which is certainly better for business than auto traffic), but I think better quality architecture and a streetscape with fewer gaps would do more to promote a revitalized Charles than anything else. Perhaps a first step should include actively addressing the redevelopment potential of the south side of Queen and Charles -- potentially a more worthwhile investment of public dollars than more 5B's treatments.

Really? I find that surprising, especially the part about it potentially detracting from the quality of life on the street. Take King st for example. I don't think you'll find anyone that's saying it's worse off now.

I understand the argument they're making, just don't agree with it. I think having nice streets, with good lighting, is important.

mpd618

09-20-2010, 10:56 PM

Really? I find that surprising, especially the part about it potentially detracting from the quality of life on the street. Take King st for example. I don't think you'll find anyone that's saying it's worse off now.

But King Street has good bones: a street wall of small storefronts. In contrast, no niceness of the street is going to help in front of Market Square, or a surface parking lot, etc.

smably

09-20-2010, 11:05 PM

What Charles needs most is the functional stuff that King Street has -- that is, sidewalks wide enough to feel comfortable on, lower traffic speed, and more storefronts. Then bring on the benches and bollards.

Spokes

09-20-2010, 11:13 PM

But King Street has good bones: a street wall of small storefronts. In contrast, no niceness of the street is going to help in front of Market Square, or a surface parking lot, etc.

No I understand that, but just about anyone will tell you that it was well worth the money as King street is 10x better now than before.

bcwessel

09-21-2010, 01:14 AM

No I understand that, but just about anyone will tell you that it was well worth the money as King street is 10x better now than before.

I'm not prepared to dismiss the work done on King St. as a waste of money; as I've mentioned above, I actual like the work that's been done and I think it looks fantastic. That being said, reasonable arguments against spending money on that kind of treatment can be made, and their effectiveness for promoting street life is contested by many people who are far more knowledgeable than I. Based on my perception of the new King, the creation of mingling space in the form of patios and wider sidewalks, and the reduction of traffic speed (as opposed to the brick and bollards) have had a greater affect on how the street feels. I'm also willing to acknowledge that the treatment on the street may have contributed to more businesses extending out onto the sidewalk, though that may have more to do with zoning and the city's promotion of patio licensing than anything else.

However, I believe the argument stands that Charles at present does not possess the urban form required to justify spending anything on pedestrian-friendly features. The lack of brick sidewalks and vanity lighting are the last thing that we should be worrying about if our aim is to resuscitate what by all rights should be a vibrant urban corridor. For me, the problems with Charles are more structural than cosmetic. Hopefully someday (soon) we'll be able to have a good conversation about the merits of applying treatments to that stretch of downtown, but it's seems much too early for that in my opinion.

panamaniac

09-21-2010, 08:53 AM

Spokes

09-21-2010, 09:22 AM

However, I believe the argument stands that Charles at present does not possess the urban form required to justify spending anything on pedestrian-friendly features. The lack of brick sidewalks and vanity lighting are the last thing that we should be worrying about if our aim is to resuscitate what by all rights should be a vibrant urban corridor. For me, the problems with Charles are more structural than cosmetic. Hopefully someday (soon) we'll be able to have a good conversation about the merits of applying treatments to that stretch of downtown, but it's seems much too early for that in my opinion.

I agree with you about Charles. As it currently stands, it needs some redevelopment to be in line for improvements like King St. saw, but going back to my very frist comment, the lighting along Charles sucks, and the lighting along King has done wonders for the perception that downtown is unsafe at night, so my idea was just to extend it.

What ideas do you have to improve Charles st?

Spokes

09-21-2010, 09:24 AM

People should keep in mind that Charles has never really been a downtown commercial street. King, Queen, Gaukel, College, Young, Scott and to some extent Frederick and Duke, but not Charles (if I am wrong, let me know). Not to say that Charles might not evolve into a more urban form some day, but that would be something new, not a restoration of something that existed in the past. I agree that the south side of Charles between Queen and Frederick would be a good target for development, but keep in mind that what is there now was itsefl a development from the '70s.

I'd agree with you that it's never been like that. I think LRT will help Charles street. The one benefit that Charles st has going for it is that it's got a lot of potential in both surface lots and properties that could be torn down and rebuilt.

KevinL

09-21-2010, 10:08 AM

I can certainly see, if the bus terminal is taken out and the various surface lots are infilled with street-facing retail, Charles can get quite a boost.

It's too bad the old King Centre is such a visual wall; any improvements would stop right there and have no continuity beyond.

Spokes

09-21-2010, 11:07 AM

bcwessel

09-21-2010, 06:44 PM

I've often wondered if there's anything they can do to improve that. Better lighting? Murals?

Act of God?

KevinL

09-21-2010, 07:01 PM

I've often wondered if there's anything they can do to improve that. Better lighting? Murals?

Best thing I can think of is a 2-3 story infill between that and Everest College. Let it scale up, without a massive 4-story blank wall over a parking lot, andit might just work.

BuildingScout

09-21-2010, 07:05 PM

Act of God?

As I say, nothing that two coats of TNT can't fix.

Spokes

09-21-2010, 09:29 PM

Act of God?

Unless you know the guy, I think my ideas are a bit more realistic ;)

Spokes

09-21-2010, 09:31 PM

Best thing I can think of is a 2-3 story infill between that and Everest College. Let it scale up, without a massive 4-story blank wall over a parking lot, andit might just work.

Oh I want to see more than that. Ideally I want to see Everest gone and a huge residential project there. If they leave everest have an L shaped project. it'd have a 3 or 4 storey podium with retail and office space on Gaukel and Charles and on Joseph it'd have townhomes facing the park. Above that would be a single or double tower around 15 stories.

KevinL

09-22-2010, 10:42 AM

Oh I want to see more than that. Ideally I want to see Everest gone and a huge residential project there. If they leave everest have an L shaped project. it'd have a 3 or 4 storey podium with retail and office space on Gaukel and Charles and on Joseph it'd have townhomes facing the park. Above that would be a single or double tower around 15 stories.

Ambitious! I do like it,though.

UrbanWaterloo

10-04-2010, 08:06 AM

October 1, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%201a%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%202a%20Resized.JPGhttp://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%203%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%205%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%206%20Resized.JPGhttp://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%201%2C%202010%20-%207%20Resized.JPG

Rowe

10-04-2010, 10:35 AM

Damn this is a big parking lot.

markster

10-07-2010, 03:37 PM

Just walked past it today on Charles/Benton.
Despite its size, it's not actually that opressive. The large "windows" and bright brickwork make it fairly visually interesting.

Funny to see that the sign saying "Opening Summer 2010" has come down. Seems like we've missed that deadline.

Spokes

10-07-2010, 05:22 PM

Ya that deadline was changed a while ago even though the sign says otherwise.

You're definitely right, it's not overwhelming. And as things grow around it it's going to feel rather small.

And welcome to Wonderful Waterloo markster!!

Spokes

10-15-2010, 07:46 PM

Does anyone know how much of the parking will be available to the public during the day? I assume at night all of the spots reserved for the courthouse will be fair game.

UrbanWaterloo

10-30-2010, 08:04 AM

October 29, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%2029,%202010%20-%201a%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%2029,%202010%20-%202%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20October%2029,%202010%20-%203a%20Resized.JPG

markster

11-16-2010, 02:41 PM

From yesterday's Record (http://news.therecord.com/article/813115)

Benton parking garage behind schedule but will open in the new year
Philip Walker/Record staff

November 15, 2010
By Melinda Dalton, Record staff

KITCHENER — It’s months behind schedule, and possibly over budget, but the new Benton and Charles Street garage should be ready to open its doors early in the new year.

The new 500 space, multi-level parking structure was originally slated to be complete in the summer.

That deadline was pushed back because the windows in the stairwells couldn’t be completed until the brick work was finished, according to John McBride, the city’s director of transportation planning.

...

About 80 per cent of the spaces in the new garage will be occupied by monthly parking. The remainder will be available for hourly customers.

The city will be monitoring that mix and adjusting it accordingly to ensure they’re serving the temporary parkers first, McBride said.

The structure itself was designed to look like it fit into the larger industrial buildings in the area. It has a brick exterior and large windows — intended to allow airflow and light while esthetically blending into the neighbourhood.

“This is going to be a top quality garage,” McBride said. “It should serve the neighbourhood very well for decades.”

There will also be a public art component, some of which be installed in the next few weeks. Models of pedestrians made out of resin will be affixed to the side of the structure. There will also be a bronze sculpture installed at street level.

Also at street level will be two commercial units leased out by the city.

The city can’t start looking for those tenants until the building is closer to completion.

mdalton@therecord.com

SP!RE

11-16-2010, 02:51 PM

Spokes

11-16-2010, 03:13 PM

I hate this thing. Glass windows instead of those hideous screens would have been a start... damn parking garages. I hate when they aren't hidden. And the retail spaces at ground level don't look super inviting.

Really? Walking past it I don't see it that way at all. Probably just your perspective from the pictures rather than actually seeing it in person.

Sure glass would have been nicer, but this doesn't look as bad as you make it out to be. Again, juts my perspective though. Of course underground parking would have been better, but financially it's not realistic, and this could have been worse too, looked worse, had no retail, etc. For what it's goal was, and what it achieves it's a good addition to downtown.

Rowe

11-16-2010, 03:59 PM

It adds to the downtown economy but not design.

Sometimes you can not ask for both.

Urbanomicon

11-16-2010, 04:15 PM

I hate this thing. Glass windows instead of those hideous screens would have been a start... damn parking garages. I hate when they aren't hidden. And the retail spaces at ground level don't look super inviting.

The reason for the screens is to allow proper ventilation so car exhaust fumes do not build up to hazardous levels. If the structure was enclosed, a great deal of additional money would be required for forced air ventilation systems (as well as a backup generator) also a substantial increase in hydro consumption would result.

Spokes

11-16-2010, 06:32 PM

It adds to the downtown economy but not design.

Sometimes you can not ask for both.

Ya especially when city owned and paid for.

SP!RE

11-16-2010, 07:40 PM

I've seen it in person numerous times.

Ah well. There will be more exciting things to come. Next!

plam

11-16-2010, 08:14 PM

I've seen it in person numerous times.

Ah well. There will be more exciting things to come. Next!

Hey, it is free of stucco.

markster

11-19-2010, 10:52 PM

November 16th

Incremental progress

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/Markster3000/Buildings/DSCF2516.jpg
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/Markster3000/Buildings/DSCF2518.jpg
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/Markster3000/Buildings/DSCF2519.jpg

Matt2727

11-20-2010, 08:00 AM

I think it looks good for a parking garage. I kinda wish it went deeper into the ground so they could get rid of some of the surface parking.

BuildingScout

11-20-2010, 08:18 AM

I think it looks good for a parking garage. I kinda wish it went deeper into the ground so they could get rid of some of the surface parking.

I think it looks very nice as far as parking garages go. Certainly much better than the surface parking lot it replaces.

Belmonster

11-20-2010, 09:11 AM

I like this building, too. The large, square windows and brick exterior are just a little reminiscent of the Kaufman Lofts and the protruding stairwell echoes the entrance to the Lang Tannery building. Overall, the design really makes the parking garage feel like a natural part of the downtown Kitchener streetscape.

RangersFan

11-20-2010, 10:01 AM

Great pictures Markster

Has anyone heard if the city has lined up any retail tenants for the project yet?

markster

11-20-2010, 10:28 AM

Great pictures Markster

Has anyone heard if the city has lined up any retail tenants for the project yet?
.

Also at street level will be two commercial units leased out by the city.

The city can’t start looking for those tenants until the building is closer to completion.

KevinL

11-20-2010, 01:50 PM

Noticed this morning that the stairwell is wrapped in white tarp. Looks like they are finally moving forward on that section.

Spokes

11-20-2010, 02:12 PM

Thanks for all the pics (here and elsewhere) markster!!

In one of the shots you can kind of see the new planters/beds along Charles st which are a nice addition. I'd love to see them clad in the black granite that will be used along Benton.

Spokes

11-20-2010, 02:13 PM

Spokes

11-20-2010, 02:13 PM

Great pictures Markster

Has anyone heard if the city has lined up any retail tenants for the project yet?

They can't lease it out until it is closer to being finished, or at least having the retail units closed in.

KevinL

11-23-2010, 09:28 PM

November 23, 2010

We have signage!
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5081/5203231176_5cb1cfbbaa_z.jpg

Curbs are being poured:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5203225498_bf7cdef16e_z.jpg

It's all coming along well.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5203227068_3bb31bcd88_z.jpg

They were tarring the low roofs this morning.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5202629379_dfdc2bb04e_z.jpg

Spokes

11-23-2010, 10:06 PM

Thanks for the updates!!

They've got all the metal framing for the glass on side as well so that shouldn't be too far off.

KevinL

11-24-2010, 05:19 PM

Curbs are being poured

I hear today that most, if not all, curbs have been poured, and sidewalk pouring has begun. Might this corner be walkable by the end of the week?

KevinL

11-26-2010, 12:52 PM

To my utter surprise, the public art has been installed! Luckily I had my camera - pictures will be up tonight as soon as I get home.

KevinL

11-26-2010, 06:00 PM

I found a description of the work here (http://www.downtownkitchener.ca/sites/cityofkitchener/files/2010-05_parking_garage_update.pdf).

Public art will be a prominent feature of this garage with elements both on the street as well as the exterior walls. The proposed artwork, by Ted Fullerton and titled "Pedestrian", will consist of seven “people” walking in stride. The figures will be slightly larger than life. Six of them will be mounted on the building’s exterior from second storey to fourth storey levels. The seventh figure will be installed at street level near the Benton Street entrance.

Ironic that a work called "Pedestrian" is installed on a vehicle garage?

At any rate, this means only the first six are installed, I saw no figure at street level today (and it may be a while for that one).

Check it out:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5047/5209670783_2271de050b_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5289/5210269820_db494fdf44_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5209669449_848678f43e_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5209668721_430b138e7f_z.jpg

panamaniac

11-26-2010, 07:06 PM

I like it!

mikeyp

11-26-2010, 07:31 PM

haha that's pretty cool!

Urban_Enthusiast86

11-26-2010, 08:11 PM

It's definitely creative and eye-catching...something that Kitchener use. I prefer it over most of the comtemporary art that out there (i.e. the cracked egg on UW campus :RpS_lol:)

1231

11-26-2010, 09:28 PM

Wow I actually kind of like it. It sure beats the sausage on Frederick Street ......

DHLawrence

11-26-2010, 09:31 PM

Hmm, an egg at UW and a sausage on Frederick. Who thinks the public art at the new station should be a piece of toast?

I like "Pedestrian" - tasteful and eyecatching.

Urbanomicon

11-26-2010, 09:37 PM

It looks like something out of the Matrix. :RpS_thumbup:

fin2limb

11-26-2010, 10:11 PM

It's definitely creative and eye-catching...something that Kitchener use. I prefer it over most of the comtemporary art that out there (i.e. the cracked egg on UW campus :RpS_lol:)

Agreed on the eye catching part. I think it's really cool.

cht13er

11-27-2010, 09:00 PM

A few more photos...like everyone else I'm pretty impressed with how good the art looks!

228229230231

GGHTransit

11-28-2010, 08:14 PM

What's even better is from the looks of it the pedestrains walking down the wall will also be lit at night; I'm guessing the circles in the wall below each one are electrical junctions for light fixture mounting?? I'f I have a chance I'll take a closer look next time I pass by, unless someone else can confirm.

FancyNancy

11-28-2010, 08:33 PM

The location across from the Oktoberfest Haus is an interesting choice, a few drinks at Oktoberfest and people may actually think they're real people walking on the building.

Spokes

11-29-2010, 08:37 AM

Love the look of it, very well done!!

What's even better is from the looks of it the pedestrains walking down the wall will also be lit at night; I'm guessing the circles in the wall below each one are electrical junctions for light fixture mounting?? I'f I have a chance I'll take a closer look next time I pass by, unless someone else can confirm.

Given that the junction boxes are directly below the three figures on the wall of the structure, my guess would also be that they'll be lit up, as will the one's on the roof, which will be a very nice feature. Hopefully the Benton street frontage is lit the same way the rest of speakers corner is (I assume it will be) and hopefully they do some good lighting along the Charles st side of it.

KevinL

11-30-2010, 10:19 AM

This made the front cover of The Record today! They have a good shot with some workers on that roof among the statuary.

The caption also clarifies that these six are not bronze, but resin; I guess that lets them stand so perpendicular without straining the walls. The final figure at street level will be bronze for durability.

KevinL

12-03-2010, 03:55 PM

I'm guessing the circles in the wall below each one are electrical junctions for light fixture mounting??

Correct. The lights have since been installed!

KevinL

12-07-2010, 07:33 PM

Most of the fences have been removed, and the sidewalks are nearly ready. Some strips on the Benton side, perpendicular to the street, are not yet filled; I think those are set to get the same black pavers as are found in strips at Speaker's Corner.

Coolest new thing: the final figure from Pedestrian, the street-level bronze, is now in. Walked right up to it early this evening, you can see how rough a rendering the artist used.

Brando_T

12-10-2010, 07:40 PM

Any word when this might be open? While finishing touches such as statues are being installed, there still seems to be a considerable amount of work to be done - glass, doors, etc.

KevinL

12-10-2010, 09:47 PM

Any word when this might be open? While finishing touches such as statues are being installed, there still seems to be a considerable amount of work to be done - glass, doors, etc.

It looks like they want the streetscape in place before full winter sets in. The interior finishes, and in particualr the main starwell facing Benton, sthill have a long way to go by the look of it; that's what will take until spring to complete.

Spokes

12-11-2010, 08:31 AM

Any word when this might be open? While finishing touches such as statues are being installed, there still seems to be a considerable amount of work to be done - glass, doors, etc.

I think the main focus will be on getting the garage useable before getting the retail part usable. But you'd think they'd want to seal the front all up to protect from the snow. Also, unless it's been done recently, they still need to cover all the openings on the back side of the garage.

It looks like they want the streetscape in place before full winter sets in. The interior finishes, and in particualr the main starwell facing Benton, sthill have a long way to go by the look of it; that's what will take until spring to complete.

I think the streetscape is just about done. All the fences seemed to be down out front in addition to those that were removed along Charles last week.

UrbanWaterloo

12-22-2010, 03:42 PM

December 20, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Kitchener/Downtown/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage/Charles%20Benton%20Parking%20Garage%20-%20December%2020,%202010%20-%201a%20Resized.jpg

DowntownRetail

12-23-2010, 12:24 PM

Any word when this might be open? While finishing touches such as statues are being installed, there still seems to be a considerable amount of work to be done - glass, doors, etc.

We've been told it will be opening in phases one floor at a time starting in Jan'11. Meloul Blamey is out of the construction office as of next week.

Spokes

12-26-2010, 10:44 PM

The lights are on illuminating the Pedestrian public art project. The figures look really cool all lit up at night.

RangersFan

01-11-2011, 08:34 AM

Photos from Jan 9 2011
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CBparkingstructureJan920114.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CBparkingstructureJan920111.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CBparkingstructureJan920112.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Charles%20and%20Benton%20Parking%20Structure/CBparkingstructureJan920113.jpg

Rowe

01-18-2011, 11:01 AM

I see this building everyday.. it will turn out better than I had originally thought.

ViewFromThe42

01-18-2011, 12:19 PM

The fact that a city has buildings does not make it ugly or horrendous to take in, it's the design of them. In Pittsburgh a year ago, I went past this parking garage, and took a long time to figure out what it was (having just been to the Warhol Museum).
http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/Images/US/PA/Pittsburgh/200801/FortDuquesneandSixthParkingGarage-Jul08-002a.jpg
It still shocks me that people think by opposing development, standing against LRT, and bemoaning condo developments they are preserving a good image of their city, stuck to feature a glut of buses, student housing bricks on street after street, and generally a much less desirable place to live. I hope KWC does not become Mississauga, but that's what the push always seems to be creating.

Rowe

01-18-2011, 12:28 PM

I agree with that comment.

Design to a lot of people seems 'expensive' or 'useless' but to me.. design says competition.

Urban_Enthusiast86

01-18-2011, 01:36 PM

I hope KWC does not become Mississauga

Too late... :RpS_sad:

Question is, how do we reverse it.

Spokes

01-18-2011, 01:41 PM

Too late... :RpS_sad:

Question is, how do we reverse it.

We're not nearly as bad as Mississauga, but certain things (like the Boardwalk) push us in that direction more than pulling us away from it.

KevinL

01-18-2011, 01:45 PM

We're not nearly as bad as Mississauga

Agreed; we have nothing as monstrous as Square One. Yet.

Rowe

01-18-2011, 01:56 PM

Waterloo Region needs a green belt. I know the Townships generally oppose suburban development (other than the development in Breslau) but it would be nice to have a 'safety blanket.'

Duke-of-Waterloo

01-18-2011, 02:04 PM

we have nothing as monstrous as Square One. Yet.

Hespeler Road?? Almost looks identical to Hurontario or Mavis (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.612284,-79.696186&spn=0,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=43.612144,-79.695997&panoid=GJXjCVii6iV2JkQ_bOZ4fA&cbp=12,129.17,,0,-2.11)...

Urban_Enthusiast86

01-18-2011, 02:13 PM

Hespeler Road?? Almost looks identical to Hurontario or Mavis (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.612284,-79.696186&spn=0,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=43.612144,-79.695997&panoid=GJXjCVii6iV2JkQ_bOZ4fA&cbp=12,129.17,,0,-2.11)...

And Fairway Rd, and Highland, and Weber, and now Ira Needles, among others.

So much of this region was built in the past 30 years that many areas look indistinguisable from much of Mississauga. Add to that, the smattering of small towns in the Mississauga sprawl and a lot of similarities can be pointed out.

But I do prefer the King street corridor over the Hurontario corridor as a place to intensify. At least there is more of a traditional street fabric to work with in the former, even if the latter might have higher densities.

Spokes

01-18-2011, 02:29 PM

Spokes

01-18-2011, 02:29 PM

Waterloo Region needs a green belt. I know the Townships generally oppose suburban development (other than the development in Breslau) but it would be nice to have a 'safety blanket.'

Wasn't the region planning that recently?

Rowe

01-18-2011, 02:32 PM

And Fairway Rd, and Highland, and Weber, and now Ira Needles, among others.

This will be the place to look at as LRT (hopefully) comes in and the amount of potential in the area for intensification. It will be similar to the intensification around Square One.

Rowe

01-18-2011, 02:34 PM

Wasn't the region planning that recently?

That would be very inspiring.

DHLawrence

01-18-2011, 07:20 PM

When comparing Hurontario/Mavis to Hespeler Road, there should be a change in wording: Hurontario and Mavis are like Hespeler Road. Our beloved Highway 24 was a strip mall nightmare when Mavis and Highway 10 were two-lane farm roads. Now is the time to be a trendsetter once again.

Spokes

01-18-2011, 07:48 PM

bcwessel

01-18-2011, 08:08 PM

I really like this. They've really taken risks with the design and thought outside the box. I wish we'd do this more. We need to take more risks, when it comes to that we're fairly conservative here in WR

The problem with "thinking outside the box" and "tak[ing] more risks" with out local architecture is that as well something can turn out, if they don't we're still stuck with the thing for the life of the structure. If you're buying a pair a jeans, go ahead and grab the latest and greatest style. However, when we're talking buildings which will (hopefully) last for decades or even generations, I'm not so sure that experimentation and an affinity toward fads should be our guiding principles.

With particular regards to things like parking garages, I'd much rather they blend in with their surroundings (or even more ideally be located out of sight altogether). When building parking garages in semi-prominent locations is absolutely unavoidable, I would rather we consider the structure's life after parking than its ability to confound us with its impressive genius.

Spokes

01-18-2011, 10:14 PM

Ya I don't necessarily mean doing something wild and crazy, but not necessarily always something so traditional and conservative. Perimiter Institute would be a good example.

bcwessel

01-18-2011, 10:41 PM

Ya I don't necessarily mean doing something wild and crazy, but not necessarily always something so traditional and conservative. Perimiter Institute would be a good example.

It's interesting that you would choose PI as a good example, because it provokes precisely the opposite reaction for me. Out of curiosity, what exactly makes PI an excellent building for you?

Spokes

01-18-2011, 10:56 PM

It's interesting that you would choose PI as a good example, because it provokes precisely the opposite reaction for me. Out of curiosity, what exactly makes PI an excellent building for you?

Sorry, let me be clear, not nececarily that PI is an excellent building, I like it, but not love it, but that the architect was willing to take risks and do something different. That's why I pointed it specfically out.

plam

01-18-2011, 11:14 PM

It's interesting that you would choose PI as a good example, because it provokes precisely the opposite reaction for me. Out of curiosity, what exactly makes PI an excellent building for you?

I don't think that PI is as wacky as, say, the Stata Center (http://web.mit.edu/facilities/construction/completed/stata.html) in Cambridge, MA. I do think that it works very well as a physics research institute (in terms of the physical layout) and that the look is what a cutting-edge physics research should look like. I don't think it looks ugly or depressing in the sense of a big hunk of concrete (and I've been in those for more time than I'd like).

I'd say that it's way more functional than the Davis Centre, where my office is located.

KevinL

01-18-2011, 11:35 PM

bcwessel

01-18-2011, 11:52 PM

I love PI, personally (at least the original building); the contrast of the blackboard-plain wall facing FDB and the glass blocks of of offices facing the lake is dramatic and powerful. The green roof over the parking lot is just gravy. I'm withholding judgment on the addition till it's done, but so far it's not looking good.

All of which can only be appreciated from afar. But this is not a sculpture, it is a building, and buildings need to be analyzed in their proper contexts. They constitute informative relationships with their surroundings, sometimes for the better (but sadly often times for the worse). The PI in particular, rather than informing its place as a human environment, demands our exclusive attention for itself. It says that everything beyond its "dramatic and powerful" exterior is unworthy of reflection, which is further reinforced by its lack of any kind of relationship to its neighbour (the Clay and Glass Museum). It's as though the building was designed in a vacuum, and then dropped onto the lot from above in such a way as to perpetually reinforce its singular majesty (and by extension, the genius of its creator), which might be really great for selling postcards in the lobby gift shop, but which makes for a pretty unfortunate urban environment.

I will never cease to be amazed that award winning buildings are able to create such thoroughly unrewarding places -- rewarding places, after all, being the SOLE purpose of a building's exterior.

ViewFromThe42

01-19-2011, 09:58 AM

On one hand, I think it's great that they are thinking about new ideas with design. On the other hand, my girlfriend first thought the human sculptures on the parking structure downtown were corpses and was given quite a fright. But whether I think something is the bee's knees in its design or an odd choice, I will almost assuredly prefer it over another concrete mass (GR Hospital's parking).

BuildingScout

01-24-2011, 10:47 AM

A Miami Beach Event Space. Parking Space, Too
January 23, 2011 | MICHAEL BARBARO | NY Times | Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/24/us/24garage.html?_r=1&hp)

MIAMI BEACH, Fla. — For her wedding over the weekend, Nina Johnson had worked through a predictable checklist of locations in town: hotel ballrooms, restaurant halls and catering outfits.

In the end, though, she opted for the most glamorous, upscale and stylish setting she could find — a parking garage. “When we saw it, we were in total awe,” said Ms. Johnson, 26, an art gallery director. “It’s breathtaking.”

Parking garages, the grim afterthought of American design, call to mind many words. (Rats. Beer cans. Unidentifiable smells.) Breathtaking is not usually among them.

Yet here in Miami Beach, whose aesthetic is equal parts bulging biceps and fluorescent pink, bridal couples, bar mitzvah boys and charity-event hosts are flocking to what seems like the unimaginable marriage of high-end architecture and car storage: a $65 million parking garage in the center of the city. Ms. Johnson put an image of the parking garage on her 230 wedding invitations.

Spokes

01-24-2011, 04:38 PM

It's a great garage. Very light and bright. For those that haven't seen it before, here you go:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/24/us/JP-GARAGE-2/JP-GARAGE-2-popup.jpg
Source: NY Times - http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/01/24/JP-GARAGE-2.html

bcwessel

01-24-2011, 05:00 PM

Spokes

01-24-2011, 05:03 PM

I believe I've posted a video tour and interviews with the architects previously in this thread.

That was you? Thanks! I remember seeing that a while back.

markster

03-17-2011, 12:53 PM

Finally some visible progress on this thing.

They're taking down the orange tarps, and are putting up glass at the stairwells.
I also saw that the electronic signs at the entrances are installed, and are being tested. When I walked past, one of them said "Do Not Enter".

It's interesting that it's designed with 3 gates for entering/exiting. It looks like the middle one will be reversible, presumably an entrance for the morning, and an exit for the afternoon.

I'm not sure if we've covered the prices, but the sign says:
$3 first 2 hours
$1.50 each 1/2 hour after
$12 maximum

Spokes

03-19-2011, 12:19 PM

Looks like standard City of Kitchener rates to me.

mpd618

03-22-2011, 07:24 PM

I think at least part of the garage is open for business.

KevinL

03-23-2011, 12:08 AM

I think at least part of the garage is open for business.

Yep, bottom two levels are up and running.

Brando_T

03-23-2011, 12:31 PM

I noticed the exit/entrance signs lit up today, wondered if today was the first day of business.

RangersFan

04-07-2011, 04:52 PM

The garage is now open

Benton Street garage now open
April 4, 2011 | 570 News | LINK (http://www.570news.com/news/local/article/207383--benton-street-garage-now-open)

The City of Kitchener's latest parking garage is fully open as of today -- seven months after the original scheduled opening date.

The Benton Street Parking Garage, at the corner of Benton and Charles Streets in downtown Kitchener, started allowing monthly pass holders to park on its first two levels last months, but as of today, those levels are available for anyone to park.

John McBride, Director of Transportation Planning, tells 570 News there were numerous factors that lead to the long delay to open the new facility.

He says delays in concrete work and the glass work were major factors.

KevinL

06-08-2011, 02:41 PM

Final construction is definitely winding down - they're starting to pick up and leave by the looks of it.

The commercial spaces facing Benton now have 'For Lease' signs.

markster

06-08-2011, 07:51 PM

A week and a half ago, I went wandering around the parkade, and noticed that the western stairwell no longer had signs saying that the upper floor was closed!

So I went up and starting walking out on the roof to get a look at the view.
I saw a worker up there and said "hi", to which he replied "uh, you do know that this floor is closed, right?"

Oof..

KevinL

06-23-2011, 06:23 PM

Top floor is now open. In fact, with the exception of the portapotty out front and the construction stuff still in the corner retail unit, this thing looks 100% finished.

tomthip

06-26-2011, 11:09 AM

It would be nice to see the banners go up around the building just to make it more lively as seen in the drawing. I believe the poles to mount the banners are installed.

I wonder what would go into the retail area; there seems to be room for a patio. Starbucks?

UrbanWaterloo

09-16-2011, 07:27 AM

Charles and Benton Street Garage Grand Opening
City of Kitchener | Link (http://icalendar.esolutionsgroup.ca/Module.aspx?PMID=980258d1-8d42-488a-87aa-5513aef615ba&CID=3219bc65-cf20-401d-b426-0d610cdcce4d&S=2011-09-22%2011:30:00Z&E=2011-09-22%2012:00:00Z)

September 22, 2011 11:30 AM - 12:00 PM

The Charles and Benton street parking garage is complete - join us for the grand opening!

The new garage will make parking in the city’s core even more convenient and safe, encouraging people to visit downtown to work, shop, dine and to be entertained.

The unique features of this multi-use structure include:

• Façade – inspired by the warehouse districts in the core
• public art – Pedestrian, by Ted Fullerton promotes pedestrian first values
• bike parking – secure bicycle parking compound
• retail space – integration of ground-level retail outlets

Join us for presentations and refreshments.

RSVP to 519-741-2602 by September 19. Contact Name: Nicole Amaral