Complete Lang Tannery Redevelopment | 20 m | 5 fl [Archive]

Spokes

12-27-2009, 11:55 PM

Lang Tanning building sold
Toronto developer hopes to attract retail, restaurant and office tenants

December 01, 2007
MATT WALCOFF
RECORD STAFF

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KITCHENER - Reflecting the revitalization of downtown Kitchener's Warehouse District, Toronto companies have agreed to buy the former Lang Tanning building and also the former Interior Hardwood Co. factory across Victoria Street.

Cadan Inc., a real-estate developer specializing in converting properties to new uses, is to buy the old tannery, a warren of connected buildings dating to the 1890s that houses several dozen small businesses.

Although no plans have been finalized, Cadan hopes to attract retail, restaurant and professional office tenants to the 5.6-acre site, said Lana Sherman, managing director of the company.

Meanwhile, Allied Properties Real Estate Investment Trust announced yesterday it is to purchase the century-old former wooden-seat factory at 72 Victoria St. S. for $13.9 million.

The seller, Waterloo Warehouse Equities (Victoria) Ltd., spent $4.5 million turning the building into office space in 1999. It now houses eight tenants in 85,610 square feet of retro-trendy surroundings featuring hardwood floors and exposed beams.

Sherman said her company hopes to attract similar tenants to the 400,000-square-foot Lang Tannery building.

"People like designers, lawyers or accountants -- people who want funky office space, people who have interesting retail space," she said. "People who want open spaces so the restaurants can spill out into the courtyard."

Allied Properties said it expects its purchase to close in January. The sale of the Lang building from the current owners, construction company Ball Brothers Ltd., should close around New Year's, said real estate agent John Whitney of J.J. Barnicke Whitney Ltd.

Sherman and Whitney declined to say how much the Lang building is selling for.

The tannery, once the largest in the British Empire, closed in 1954. Ball Brothers bought the building, which fronts onto Joseph Street, 29 years later.

In its maze of walls, staircases and dead-end corridors, it houses a motley collection of small businesses, including martial arts studios, artists' workshops, and wood shops.

While Sherman said she cannot make any promises, Cadan has no plans to evict any of the building's current tenants.

"We don't have a plan to kick people out," she said. "We really want to develop around the people that are there."

Cadan's first move will be to clean up the building and improve access to it for both current and future tenants, Sherman said.

"Our initial focus is just going to be on clearing it up and restoring it and unlocking its inner beauty," she said.

More details about Cadan's plans for the building will come in a formal announcement in the next few weeks, she said.

Cadan also owns the Palisades Kitchener retirement residence on Benton Street. Although the company has not ruled anything out, Sherman expressed skepticism about putting residences in the Lang building.

"In the city right now, I'm not sure people need any more lofts," she said.

The 72 Victoria St. S. building will be Allied Properties' only holding outside of Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg and Quebec City.

In a statement, Michael Emory, chief executive officer of Allied Properties, said Kitchener's Warehouse District is a promising market.

"It's an emerging urban neighbourhood with the same historic character and mix of uses that have made our current target markets so successful."

Because Allied Properties is in a regulatory quiet period, Emory declined to speak further on the building purchase.

mwalcoff@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/276864 (http://news.therecord.com/article/276864)

Big plan afoot for Lang building
Developer to turn property into thriving centre

May 27, 2008
Terry Pender
RECORD STAFF

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KITCHENER - Developers hope to turn one of the city's largest historic buildings -- the former Lang tannery -- into a thriving people place, with restaurants, digital and multimedia offices and studios, and research space for the life sciences.

Toronto-based Candan Inc. briefed city councillors yesterday on the $30-million project to transform the 100-year-old tannery into a high-profile bastion of the knowledge economy.

The building, bounded by Victoria, Charles, Francis and Joseph streets will be called The Tannery.

"We are very excited about it," Lana Sherman of Candan told councillors.

"Once it is completed, The Tannery will become a vibrant community where diverse users can share space and ideas."

Sherman said the existing tenants, including artisans, graphic designers, photographers and carpenters, "will interact with new users, the multimedia, the digital media, health sciences, technology, new retail and professional services."

Candan sees opportunities in old factories and has a lot of experience converting them to new uses. The company bought an old rubber factory at Dupont and Dundas streets in Toronto for another project.

"Give us an opportunity to revitalize and reuse as opposed to demolish, which is what most developers start off with, and we enjoy the opportunity to make positive change, both socially and economically," Sherman said.

"We are creating a convergence centre, where creativity and business will flourish, a place that caters to people beyond the nine-to-five."

The work is scheduled to be done in 2009.

Candan discovered the old tannery building while converting a retirement home at Church and Benton streets into condominiums.

Those condominiums at 64 Benton St. go on the market next month.

The tannery project is the second major development near the University of Waterloo's school of pharmacy at King and Victoria streets.

The City of Kitchener provided the land and gave the university $30 million to attract the Health Sciences Campus to the downtown.

That project spurred the $40-million conversion of the Kaufman boot factory into condominiums, and now the adaptive re-use of the tannery building.

"We are excited by the growth and rejuvenation we see going on all around us, and we hope to be a key component in the evolution of downtown Kitchener," Sherman said.

"Kitchener is going through one of the most extensive, bold and dynamic core revitalization processes in the country."

Parts of the building along Charles Street will be demolished. A new entrance and lobby will be built off Victoria Street. Walkways will bring pedestrians into the development, which will also feature a gallery celebrating the building's industrial heritage. A parking lot will be built at Charles and Victoria streets.

"We are being very sensitive to the heritage and history that is there," Sherman said.

Showers and storage facilities for cyclists will be added to the building. Businesses leasing space can join a car-sharing program to reduce the demand for parking.

Candan will have 350,000 square feet of space in the redeveloped buildings. It hopes to attract a variety of restaurants, new retail users, digital and multi-media offices and studios, office and research space for the life sciences, design and professional offices and service providers.

"I can see the energy that will be brought back to the building," Mayor Carl Zehr said. "I am really pleased with what I see and I wish you well."

Zehr has been one of the strongest supporters of the $110-million fund created a few years ago to create and attract strategic investments in the core.

Even a critic of the fund, Coun. John Gazzola, was impressed with Candan's plans.

"I'm really pleased to see all this," he said.

tpender@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/356582 (http://news.therecord.com/article/356582)

Spokes

12-27-2009, 11:57 PM

Lang renovation will be the heart of the tannery district

June 16, 2008
Terry Pender
Record staff

KITCHENER—Chris Barfoot slowly walks through the 19th Century building, his mind racing with 21st Century possibilities for reusing one of the area’s oldest and biggest industrial buildings—the Lang Tannery.

Work has already started on transforming this 5.5-acre warren of 15 interconnected buildings into a mixed-use development with offices, pharmaceutical laboratories, restaurants, professional services, high-tech companies, artisans and boutique retailers.

Barfoot doesn’t stop talking as he navigates the maze-like collection of buildings, which range from one to five storeys. He operates industrial elevators or walks down wooden staircases on his way through a series of large spaces Toronto-based Cadan Inc. aims to have renovated and ready for new tenants in about a year.

"It’s surprising the building is in such good shape after more than 100 years," Barfoot says.

Bare-brick walls surround wood-plank floors and pillars that support ceilings 20-feet high. All of the rooms have lots of windows, and a large section on the top floor of one building has a long skylight. Most of the windows are now boarded-up and the skylight is closed, but all that will change in the coming months.

"Depending upon who is going to use this space we will fix that up and put it on a mechanical-opening system," Barfoot says of the skylight.

Reinhold Lang founded the Lang Tannery Company in 1848. It was located at the northeast corner of King and Ontario streets. This was Kitchener’s first major industry. In 1853 the original tannery was destroyed by a fire. Lang built a new tannery at the corner of Francis and Charles streets.
Business was good.

Between 1896 and 1956 the tannery buildings were built on the block of land bounded by Francis, Charles, Victoria and Joseph streets. The Lang Tannery became the largest producer of sole leather in the British Empire during the First World War. It also suppled saddle leather during the First World War, and during the Second World War it made leather linings for aircraft fuel tanks.

Business dropped off quickly following the Second World War, and the business closed in 1954.

Barfoot and Cadan know this history well and want to honour and preserve as much of it as possible. A public gallery will be located in the development with photographs and artifacts celebrating the industrial heritage of both the tannery and the city.

Throughout the buildings are large wooden doors operated with counter-weights. These will be cleaned up and placed at strategic locations in the new development.

"We just have to clean the walls. New windows ,new electrical, new heating-ventilation-and-air-conditioning. We are going to wire it for fibre-optics so it’s all high-speed Internet," Barfoot says of the renovations.

Near the centre of the block is an old building that houses a large oil tank. Both that building and the tank will be removed to make way for a courtyard and public walkway that will bring pedestrians into the heart of The Tannery District.

"Our initial thought was to have people walk through to Victoria Park, but we are not 100 per cent sure on that. We may have to gate it off for security purposes," Barfoot says.

Beginning next month the single-storey building along Charles Street will be demolished to make way for the parking lot. Stores, restaurants, the court yard and walkway will be accessible from this lot at the corner of Victoria and Charles streets.

"That’s going to be the face of The Tannery District," Barfoot says.

The exterior of the buildings needs some work. Some outside walls need cleaning. Some masonry joints need repointing. New bricks will be installed where needed. Almost all of the windows will be replaced and new roofs will be installed.

The total cost of the project is estimated at $30 million.

Wooden staircases and old-freight elevators harken back to the city’s first wave of industry. While oozing character and history these will be replaced with modern versions to comply with the building code.

Barfoot arrives on the top floor of a building and looks over the expansive room—20,000-square-feet. The pipes, beams and pillars are all exposed. Brick walls with lots of windows enclose the room.

"This is going to be the office space here," Barfoot says. "This is the really cool, funky office space; companies are going to come in here and love this, high ceilings, quiet."

The Tannery District expects to sign some high-tech firms and pharmaceutical companies as tenants. On the main floor near Charles Street is a huge room with a mezzanine level.

"This is an area where we are targeting a restaurant," Barfoot says.

tpender@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/367798 (http://news.therecord.com/article/367798)

Former tannery on track to reveal facelift in '09

September 19, 2008
Matt Walcoff
RECORD STAFF

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KITCHENER - The redevelopers of the former Lang tannery have cleared out most of the 350,000-square-foot building for retail and office space that should be ready for use next year.

The eclectic community of small businesses that has occupied the old buildings for nearly 30 years has been consolidated into the part of the complex fronting Francis Street, said Lana Sherman, managing director of developer Cadan Inc.

Of the nearly 100 existing businesses -- martial arts studios, artists' workshops, wood shops and the like -- 60 to 70 have made arrangements to stay on the property, Sherman said. The rest are closing or moving off-site.

Cadan is on schedule to have the complex, which dates to the 1890s, converted into a trendy mix of stores, restaurants and office space by the middle of next year.

The developers recently began demolishing the former Downtown Self Storage building at Victoria and Charles streets to open up space for a nearly 100-vehicle parking lot.

Cadan also plans to get rid of the mostly empty buildings between Joseph and Oak streets for another parking lot.

Below the painted "Lang Tanning Company" advertisement facing Charles Street will be 20,000 square feet of retail space. Several restaurants should also open on the site, Sherman said. Office space and what Sherman calls the artisans' building on Francis Street will make up the balance of the development.

The demolition of the self-storage building should be completed by the end of the year. Construction of a new lobby for the artisans' building is also expected to be finished over the winter.

In the spring, the developers expect to landscape the property and run new utilities into the buildings.

The Lang tannery closed in 1954 after more than a century of producing leather in Kitchener.

Uniroyal Ltd. used the buildings for tire storage before selling them to construction company Ball Brothers Ltd. in 1973.

Cadan bought the complex for $9.4 million in January.

mwalcoff@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/417264 (http://news.therecord.com/article/417264)

Spokes

12-27-2009, 11:58 PM

Architect has big plans for old tannery

December 08, 2008
Terry Pender
RECORD STAFF

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KITCHENER - Decades before Roland Rom Colthoff started to bring new life to one of this city's most historic buildings -- the Lang Tannery -- he wanted to become an architect who blended new elements into old urban fabrics.

After moving to Canada from Holland as a young boy, Colthoff grew up in Peterborough. He regularly walked past an abandoned warehouse near the railway that bisects Peterborough's downtown.

One day a guitar maker moved into the empty space, installed new windows and opened shop.

"I remember taking a photo of it and sending it along with my resumé to the school of architecture at the University of Waterloo," recalls Colthoff.

"I said I would like to be part of that, to rejuvenate the city. When you are young you are full of ideals you are going to save the world through architecture."

After graduating in 1983 from the school of architecture at Carleton University in Ottawa, Colthoff went on to find new uses for old factories across Toronto and southern Ontario.

Colthoff worked on the first condominiums constructed in the historic Distillery District in Toronto and The Toy Factory in Liberty Village. Stage East in the Leslieville neighbourhood in Toronto is a recent project. So are the Cube Lofts in Little Italy, which sold out in two hours.

Last year Colthoff and his partner started their own architecture firm -- Raw Design -- and were hired by the Toronto-based developer who bought the Lang Tannery -- Cadan Inc.

"They are beautiful buildings and you can do so much with them, which makes them quite incredible to work with," Colthoff says.

Rheinhold Lang founded the tannery in 1848. Fire destroyed the original building. The buildings that remain were built between 1896 and 1956 on the block bounded by Charles, Joseph, Francis and Victoria streets.

The buildings once housed the largest tannery in the British Empire. It supplied the leather for boot soles and saddles during the First World War and leather linings for aircraft fuel tanks during the Second World War.

"It's incredible to bring that back into the public eye and bring people into it and have them experience those spaces," Colthoff says.

Cadan plans to spend $30 million on renovations to attract tenants. Colthoff is almost finished the design and is working on a site plan agreement with the City of Kitchener.

While the tannery may look like a single, large building it is actually a complicated warren of sturdy, old factories. Steel beams and pillars, floors made of thick planks and walls of exposed bricks are found throughout.

"The big change will be a new elevator core and new lobby so people can move through the building much easier, and cleaning up the corridors, which go all over the place right now, so we have a simple route through the building," Colthoff says.

While Colthoff continues to refine the design of a rejuvenated Tannery, the demolition phase of the renovation is finished. Chris Barfoot of Cadan's local office says about 33,000-square-feet of space has been leased out to several groups, including the Kitchener Downtown Health Clinic, Pharmasave, an IT company and furniture store.

"It's kind of slow right now, but it is picking up. We've had a lot of interest from restaurants, coffee shops and cafes," Barfoot says.

Cadan's investment is the latest along the western edge of the downtown.

The City of Kitchener started things off with a $30 million grant to the University of Waterloo for a 120,000-square-foot school of pharmacy at King and Victoria streets that opens in January. The pharmacy school cost $52 million. Next to that is a medical school slated to open in 2010. Nearby is the former Kaufman factory--the site of a $40 million conversion that created 240 condominiums.

Tomorrow night, Cadan is hosting a reception to officially launch what it calls The Tannery District. Colthoff will be among those attending the launch party, but his mind may be elsewhere--Cambridge, Hamilton. St. Catharines and Toronto.

These are all cities where Raw Design would like to breathe new life into old factories.

"There are lots of old, industrial structures that could use a deft hand to bring them back to life," Colthoff says.

tpender@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/455665 (http://news.therecord.com/article/455665)

High tech hopes for Lang site
Former tannery complex the likely front-runner for new digital media convergence centre

February 11, 2009
Michael Hammond
RECORD STAFF

KITCHENER - The Lang Tannery complex appears to be the front-runner to be the home of the proposed Digital Media Convergence Centre.

Lana Sherman, managing director of Cadan Inc., the Toronto-based developer of the Lang property, said no site has been selected for the centre, but a number of factors point to the tannery as the location of choice.

"It's kind of been understood that we have space for them and it's understood that they will move toward us," she said. "There's no pressure whatsoever. It will all come together naturally."

The tannery site in downtown Kitchener is in the block bounded by Charles, Francis, Joseph and Victoria streets and is kitty corner to the University of Waterloo's health sciences campus.

Cadan was one of a number of local groups that helped develop a proposal for federal funding for the digital media corridor, which is a joint effort between the region's high-tech industry and the University of Waterloo's Stratford Institute.

Last month, the digital media centre received $5.35 million in federal funding. The Stratford UW campus received an equal amount.

Cadan refers to the digital media centre on its tannery website and in its latest tannery newsletter.

"The tannery was one of the corporate members that were part of the application," the newsletter says, referring to the federal funding announcement. "We congratulate Communitech on this success and look forward to developing the centre with them at the tannery."

Cadan is converting the collection of industrial buildings, some of which date back more than a century, into a mixed-use complex with space for artisans, offices, restaurants, boutique shops and medical facilities.

Pharmasave will open a store in the complex and the Kitchener Downtown Community Health Centre will move there from its current location on Frederick Street, near Market Square. Sherman said a number of doctors' offices also will open in the building.

The digital media corridor's backers aim to open a 30,000-square-foot digital media centre in downtown Kitchener before the end of the year.

Local technology companies have committed $12 million in cash, equipment and services to equip the facility to do research and commercialization work. The corridor's backers want to create a space where young companies can work on ideas and researchers can begin to commercialize their research projects.

Rod Regier, director of economic development for the City of Kitchener, said no decisions have been made, but he conceded the tannery would be a great fit for the digital media centre.

"Their vision for the tannery is about creating a multi-dimensional and multidisciplinary environment that attracts great minds from a number of disciplines," he said. "That's really completely in keeping with what people are talking about as a vision for the Digital Media Convergence Centre."

Regier said the digital media centre's backers are now planning what the centre will look like. Once that process is complete, a decision on where it will go can proceed.

Kevin Tuer, executive director of the digital media corridor, said he has had discussions with Cadan, but said nothing has been decided.

"The vision and what's going on down there aligns really nicely with what we want to do with the digital media centre," he said.

The goal is still to have the digital media centre operational in some form by the end of the year.

mhammond@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/485765 (http://news.therecord.com/article/485765)

Spokes

12-27-2009, 11:59 PM

Taxpayers to foot bill for tannery cleanup

March 10, 2009
Jeff Outhit
RECORD STAFF

KITCHENER - Local taxpayers are giving a developer $891,000 to turn the former Lang Tannery site into brick-and-beam offices.

The grant pays for the environmental cleanup inside and outside the buildings at Francis and Charles streets in downtown Kitchener.

Developer Lana Sherman said the redevelopment could have gone forward without the grant, "but we were very honoured and very lucky that we were able to take advantage of this."

Contamination at the former tannery was worse than expected, Sherman said. Dirty soil had to be hauled away, along with contaminated materials found inside. Cleanup took eight months. The site, now clean, is part-way into a $30-million redevelopment. Toronto-based Cadan Inc. is converting the buildings into space for artisans, offices, restaurants, boutiques and medical facilities.

"The environmental remediation is always a big question when you buy a property," said Sherman, a managing director with Cadan. "You have some idea about the costs that you are going to incur, but at the end of the day it's a big black hole, and it's really nice to have a partner on the other side."

The money is coming from both Kitchener and regional councils. The grant, approved by both councils last week, is part of an incentive program to encourage redevelopment of former industrial sites.

"Otherwise we'd have derelict factories sitting all over our communities," Regional Chair Ken Seiling said. "It's a great investment."

Councillors say the grant will be recovered in two years from increased property taxes generated by the redeveloped property. "It's good for all of us," Kitchener Mayor Carl Zehr said.

jouthit@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/500438 (http://news.therecord.com/article/500438)

Lang Tannery building showcases its ‘new’ look

October 29, 2009
By Terry Pender, Record staff

KITCHENER — Business types mingled with bureaucrats and architects with developers in a room steeped in the city’s industrial past but bubbling with enthusiasm for the future.

On Wednesday morning, dozens of people gathered for a buffet breakfast in the Lang Tannery building to mark the halfway point in the massive $30-million redevelopment of the historic property.

So far the Toronto-based developer Cadan has leased out 120,000 of the 150,000 square feet of space available in the first phase — known as the Artisan Building.

“We are very pleased with the way the leasing has been going,” Lana Sherman, managing director of Cadan, said.

The second phase includes about 200,000 square feet of space for research and technology firms, restaurants and specialty retail.

“That is looking good, we are very excited,” Sherman said. “We have a really strong level of interest in people moving in so it is not at all like some other markets that we have experienced.”

At least two large high-tech firms are on track to lease large amounts of space in phase two, Sherman said.

“It’s like this community has a lot of old, forgotten buildings that have now come back to life with new technology businesses that are thriving and the whole focus of the community has shifted from old manufacturing,” Sherman said.

By early 2010, the second phase of the building should be renovated and ready for the first large tenant in April. Some retail tenants are expected to move in before that.

“This will hopefully be a restaurant that comes out to here so this will be their private courtyard for dining,” Roland Rom Colthoff, an architect with Toronto-based RAW Design, said during a tour of the building.

Colthoff was standing in an open area that used to hold a large boiler — the mechanical heart for what was the largest tannery in the British Empire.

“They had to cut the tank into pieces to get it out,” Colthoff said.

It is now cleaned up and ready for redevelopment.

“On the second floor there will more openings and office space around there,” Colthoff said pointing to the upper floors above the courtyard.

Balzac’s Coffee will be taking some space in phase two. That company currently has outlets in Stratford, the Distillery District in Toronto and Liberty Village, also in Toronto.

Rheinhold Lang founded the tannery in 1848. Fire destroyed the original building. The buildings that remain and form what is now called the Tannery District were built between 1896 and 1956 on the block bounded by Charles, Joseph, Francis and Victoria streets.

These buildings once supplied the leather for boot soles and saddles in the First World War and leather linings for aircraft fuel tanks during the Second World War.

Some of the future and current tenants in the building include the Kitchener Downtown Community Health Centre, a pharmacy, three doctor’s offices, biotech firms and cutting-edge technology companies.

As Colthoff walks some of the old brick and beam corridors, he marvels at the 100-year-old construction methods that can be put to new use today. The Lang Tannery is really a collection of more than 12 buildings.

“It was just added to over time as the industrial processes changed, as their business grew, they just helter-skelter added bits to the building,” Colthoff said.

“What we are lucky about is that every bit they added they built like a bunker,” Colthoff said. “So we can do almost anything inside, any use can come in.”

Much of the work so far focused on a new elevator, washrooms, new heating-ventilation-air conditioning-electrical-plumbing, fire alarms, emergency exits and partial demolition. A new entrance and lobby was constructed off Charles Street for the Artisan Building.

Some parts of the old factory are now stunning examples of old industrial space reclaimed for the new economy. There are wooden floors polished so bright they shine. Light pours in from numerous windows set inside thick walls. Stout wooden beams and posts are everywhere. Exposed pipe crosses the ceilings.

“This is a very basic renovation to it, just improve the electrical standards, improve the life safety systems, improve the heating and ventilating equipment so it is suitable for a wider range of tenancies and try and leave as much of the existing building in place as possible,” Colthoff said.

tpender@therecord.com

http://news.therecord.com/article/620788 (http://news.therecord.com/article/620788)

Spokes

12-28-2009, 12:06 AM

From http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=10740

http://static.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/10740_2_Tannery2big.jpg

The Lobby/Atrium:

http://static.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/10740_3_tannery3.big.jpg

http://static.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/10740_4_tannery4.big.jpg

http://static.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/10740_5_tannery5big.jpg

Spokes

12-28-2009, 12:12 AM

One of the things I've wondered and can't find a concrete answer to is what will they do with the painted brick work?

The rendering's look like everything's one colour, but the part at Francis and Charles is painted that tan/cream colour. Will that stay?

Spokes

12-29-2009, 08:50 PM

Good article in the new edition of Your Kitchener (http://www.kitchener.ca/pdf/yourkitnews_2010_jan_feb.pdf) about Lang. Some good info and an awesome picture! I'm not sure if I buy their timelines though. They say phase 1 is complete. I don't think so, not completely. And phase 2 done this spring? Not sure I buy that either.

Spokes

01-24-2010, 09:50 AM

mpd618

01-24-2010, 01:10 PM

The city is releasing a heritage impact assessment of the B site which is the Oak-Linden-Joseph property. It'll be discussed at the Feb 2 Heritage Kitchener meeting (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=4&day=2010-2-2&c=1)

The HIA can be found here: http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item18073_hia_lang_site_b2.pdf

Jesus Christ! They're planning on demolishing everything but the smokestack, and putting up parking. (Thanks a lot, off-street parking requirements!)

Spokes

01-24-2010, 01:34 PM

Jesus Christ! They're planning on demolishing everything but the smokestack, and putting up parking. (Thanks a lot, off-street parking requirements!)

Ya I was shocked by that too. I didn't think those existing one storey structures had a lot of potential, but shocked none the less. Now I'm not TOO crushed by this. First, its not RIGHT on Victoria st. There's still that gas station lot that can and should be redeveloped to give Victoria more of a street presence. Second, it'll be good to have more parking to justify building on all of the other surface lots. I would have liked to see some retail built in (like Charles/Benton (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/5-Charles-Benton-Parking-Structure-|-6-fl-|-U-C)) so that's a shame. Also, while I like the addition of townhouses on Oak, I'd like to see them on Linden too. (it would help blend it in with the neighbourhood a bit better, having a row of townhouses to transition into the parking garage - if that makes sense haha.) I don't anticipate the block of Joseph between Victoria and Francis to be a major pedestrian corridor based on the way the Tannery is set up. And that's even if they do the Phase 3 addition at Victoria/Joseph. So while I'm not thrilled, I'm not pumped. The devil will be in the details as they say. Will they build it to fit in with the rest of the Factory District or will they build a concrete cube? Hopefully the former. As long as it looks good, I think I'll be ok with it.

Spokes

01-24-2010, 01:36 PM

Ya for those that didn't read it, the short term plans are to demolish the buildings but not the smoke stack and have a surface lot, while the long term plans are to build a level of underground parking, and 5 floors of above ground parking with townhouses on Oak st.

UrbanWaterloo

01-31-2010, 06:45 PM

From the Bauer Buildings

I really like that style of lights that projects up and down on buildings. Tyrone T uses similar ones, as does the Tannery

Someone should capture nighttime photos of this building. ;)

Spokes

02-02-2010, 05:48 PM

Some notes from today's Heritage Kitchener Committee Meeting:

-Architects were there to present the plans for site B

-They reported that a lot of people have gotten in touch with them about wanting to locate to the Tannery site A, but have concerns about parking for their employees. They estimate that there is a need for upwards of 900 parking spots from the tenants of site A. On average of 3-4 spots per 1000 sq. ft. (One of the Tenants is the Digital Media Convergence Centre - which had previously been rumored, but I don't think ever confirmed)

-People are very interested in setting up shop downtown, but want the parking they could get in the suburbs

-The 5.5 storey parking structure would provide 650 spots.

-There would be some green space between the townhouses and the parking structure. The smoke stack would be in that space.

-One of the councilors was not comfortable with the parking structure unless it blended in to the neighborhood, adapting design elements that would make it blend in.

RangersFan

02-02-2010, 09:39 PM

How did the plans for site B look? Was there anything new about the project that you didn't know before hand?

Spokes

02-02-2010, 09:53 PM

How did the plans for site B look? Was there anything new about the project that you didn't know before hand?

Not really. The main thing is demolish all the structures minus the smoke stack (no big deal IMO) and have a temporary surface lot. Then they will have a 5.5 level parking garage. One thing that I didn't expect was that it'll only take up half the width of the block, the half nearest to Joseph st. Not exactly sure what I expected, if I expected it would take up more of the block. Actually one more thing that that was new, was that there will be a green space between the garage and townhomes that is accessable from Linden st. The smokestack will be there and likely some kind of description/historical emphasis in that space.

One thing I couldn't get my head around was that in the presentation the architects used a generic parking garage in the image, and it had rounded corners and looked a bit "modern-ish." They emphasized that it was just a generic one and not what it would look like, but come question/comment time, at least 3 or 4 councilors/city staff members expressed dismay over such a modern looking parking garage in a historic district. (Where's the shaking my head in disgust emoticon? ahah)

Spokes

02-02-2010, 09:55 PM

Updated Site B HIA - http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item18073_hia_lang_site_b_-__addendum_.pdf

RangersFan

02-02-2010, 09:57 PM

It's good to know our leaders come prepared to listen at these events, good times.

Spokes

02-02-2010, 10:02 PM

It's good to know our leaders come prepared to listen at these events, good times.

One lady, on a number of occasions was telling the architects that the developer should buy the Victoria Street lot (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/191-101-Victoria-Street-South-|-12-m-|-3-fl-|-Concept-Plan) and include that too haha. I wasn't going to get involved in that one, that there was a development (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/191-101-Victoria-Street-South-|-12-m-|-3-fl-|-Concept-Plan) in the works.

I don't know how the members of the Herritage Committee come to be members, but I feel like a lot of them are some old citizens hell bent on keeping some things the way they were. But then they'll do a complete U-Turn and make some completely progressive statement and catch me off guard.

RangersFan

02-02-2010, 10:10 PM

jay

02-02-2010, 10:31 PM

Spokes

02-02-2010, 10:37 PM

Well to be honest when I first heard about the Tannery project I was suprised that there was no residential lofts included in the plan. It seems weird that there is no plan or interest in developing a higher density development instead of townhouses. I am also suprised that there has been no interest in turning those buildings currently on site B into lofts, maybe they require lots of work etc that deems the redevelopment of the buildings unprofitable, but there really seems to be a demand for residential lofts in redevloped historic buildings in this area which I think is great.

Ya its maybe a bit surprising that there's no residential, but it's probably a good thing. There's a fair amount of residential going on, something like this would generate a lot of demand just from an office and commercial stand point. Add in the live/work lofts, that right there is a big deal because it's one of the only live/work environment places in the Region as far as I know.

The main thing that site B was earmarked for was parking. That was right from the get go. Because its a conversion project, they couldnt really have undeground parking, so parking would be limited. So once you factor in the parking structure, the only place for high density residential would be on Oak st, and that wouldn't really fit at all.

As for converting the site B buildings into residential, they're not really that nice. They're only one or two storeys. I personally don't think there's any value in them. If you were going to do residential there, I don't think those buildings would be the starting point. You're right loft conversions are very popular, but these would not be popular.

The value to Candan is that they can sell their development to companies stating that they now have more parking, some of which will be public parking.

Spokes

02-02-2010, 10:41 PM

They should approve the parking, if they want business to relocate to downtown they will need this. Hopefully a parking structure is done in a nice fashion that fits the neighbourhood.

The architects stated specifically that there were companies saying they would only relocate if there would be more parking. They said something to the effect that this wouldn't be as much of a factor if Waterloo Region had a better transit system. I had a little chuckle at that.

When the members of the committee brought up designing the structure to fit in with the neighborhood, the architects were not only very responsive to that, but said that was the plan from the get go, for the structure to fit in with the neighborhood and the Tannery project as a whole.

I agree with the surprise of no residential other than the townhomes they could do something pretty cool with the surrounding areas

Where were you thinking they'd put some? Somewhere specifically on site B?

RangersFan

02-02-2010, 10:52 PM

I like that the plan is to fit the parking structure into their surroundings. Yeah I know the buildings are not great, but you never know what a little imagination can do sometimes, but still obviously it is very important for downtown and specifically the Tannery to offer parking to their tenants, to provide that extra incentive to get more job creation in the downtown core. I wish I would have known more about this meeting I would have liked to attend.

Spokes

02-02-2010, 11:11 PM

Ya, and sometimes I lack that creativity to look at something like those structures and see potential in them.

Heritage Kitchener meets at the start of every month. Here's a run down of what was talked about today: http://www.kitchener.ca/calendar/calendarEventDetail.aspx?tid=17483&caldate=Tue%20Feb%202,%202010

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 12:06 PM

This is how the Tannery looks today Feb 3, 2010 pictures taken by me. Lots of pictures if I need to take some out let me know.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT1.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT2.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT3.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT4.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT5.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT6.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT7.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT8.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT9.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT10.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT11.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT12.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT13.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT14.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT15.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT16.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT17.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT18.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT19.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT20.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT21.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT22.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT23.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT24.jpg
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/Lang%20Tannery/LT25.jpg

Spokes

02-03-2010, 12:38 PM

Lots of pictures is a good thing! Things are starting to progress at the Artisan's building end of things. Looks like lots of new windows and doors. Does anyone know what the plan is for the brick? Restore the original look by getting rid of the paint?

Also great to see they're beginning to frame in the glass atrium.

Leaffan, what'd you think of the buildings on site B having now seen them? (I'm interested as to what everyone thinks too for that matter)

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 01:01 PM

Spokes

02-03-2010, 01:15 PM

Well I think they have some potential but it doesn't really matter since it looks like a parking garage will be sitting where they are in the future. Is there any time frame on when they will start the parking structure?

Not that was said specifically. I'd assume once things are done on site A. Although then it goes back to hurting the parking situation as no one could park there while under construction.

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 02:10 PM

Historic Kitchener smokestack to be preserved

February 03, 2010
By Terry Pender, Record staff

KITCHENER — The brick chimney off Joseph Street will be preserved as a reminder to this city’s industrial past, as the old buildings around it are demolished to make way for a parking lot.

The parking is needed to support the ambitious $30 million redevelopment of the historic Lang Tannery building, which contains 330,000-square-feet of leasable space. About half is already occupied and the developer, Toronto-based Cadan Inc., needs additional parking to support what it calls The Tannery District.

“We are very heritage conscious and heritage aware,” Lana Sherman of Cadan Inc. said Tuesday.

Sherman made her comments following a presentation to Heritage Kitchener on Tuesday. The old tannery building was not designated under the Ontario Heritage Act, but Cadan Inc. has redeveloped the property while preserving the historic features of the old industrial complex.

The company has briefed Heritage Kitchener on every aspect of the redevelopment ahead of time.

“The smoke stack is a very unique structure that needs to be preserved,” Zyg Janecki of Heritage Kitchener, said.

The tannery is bounded by Charles, Victoria, Joseph and Francis streets. A digital media centre is expected to move into the ground floor of the building, taking 36,000-square-feet of space. While an agreement has not been signed yet, an announcement is expected soon.

Across Joseph Street are five, small buildings and the smokestack that are about 93 years old and formed part of the tannery complex. This block is bounded by Linden, Joseph, Victoria and Oak streets.

Once the buildings are down, Cadan plans to build a gravel parking lot for 172 cars, “as soon as we can get permission,” Sherman said.

In the long term, a five-storey parking garage will be built on the site and a row of townhouses will run along Oak Street. The garage will provide 640 spaces.

“The demand for parking is driven by the market, it is driven by the office users,” Roland Rom Colthoff, the architect for the tannery’s redevelopment, told members of Heritage Kitchener.

Colthoff, one of the founders of the Toronto-based firm called raw design, said the Tannery District may require up to 900 parking spaces when completely occupied. But that could be reduced if public transit in the core improves, Colthoff said.

“You are competing in a market place where people can go to the suburbs and get a lot of parking,” Colthoff said.

More than one prospective tenant has wanted to locate in the Tannery District, but not before more parking was available nearby, Colthoff said.

The parking lot and future parking garage are the best way to guarantee the future preservation and re-use of the historic tannery building, says a Heritage Impact Assessment.

“The smokestack is the most significant element/building on the site,” says the assessment. “It is one of the last remaining original smokestacks within the downtown that is representative of Kitchener’s industrial heritage.”

John Ariens, a member Heritage Kitchener, urged the developer to locate some industrial artifacts in the court yards and amenity areas of the Tannery District.

“I think there has to be some thought go into it,” Ariens said.

Ariens said the old smoke stack, one of the last in the city, should be protected under the Ontario Heritage Act as soon as the buildings around it are demolished.

The redevelopment of the Tannery District is one of the biggest private-sector investments in the downtown in years. It was sparked by the City of Kitchener’s move to provide $30 million and land to the University of Waterloo for the establishment of a school of pharmacy and a satellite medical school nearby on Victoria Street.

tpender@therecord.com

jay

02-03-2010, 06:09 PM

Desire2Learn Announces Planned Move to The Tannery District
Relocation to latest redeveloped historic property in the city reflects company's culture, growth and expanding space requirements
Kitchener-Waterloo, ON | Feb 3, 2010 | http://www.desire2learn.com/news/newsdetails_156.asp

Desire2Learn Incorporated (Desire2Learn), a leading provider of mission-critical enterprise eLearning solutions, today announced an exciting new initiative that will see the company move into The Tannery in the third quarter of 2010.

The company is prosperous and growing with more than 40 positions currently available and dozens more planned. Desire2Learn continues to expand not only its base of operations in Kitchener-Waterloo but also its global team to serve an expanding set of clients across North America and around the world.

The move to the renovated and repurposed space, located between Victoria, Francis, Charles and Joseph Streets in Kitchener, Ontario, will provide Desire2Learn and its employees with the necessary space and environment required to incorporate the current and planned hiring. The space will also be the home for the new Communitech Hub: Digital Media and Mobile Accelerator.

"This region presents an incredible environment in which technology companies can thrive," states John Baker, Founder, President & CEO, Desire2Learn. "The vast talent that can be drawn from local universities and colleges, the training opportunities, supportive government bodies, and organizations, such as Communitech and Canada's Technology Triangle, offer tremendous resources as we actively participate in our local and global communities."

With continuing expansion into new markets, both within Canada and abroad, the move to The Tannery District will enable the four-time Deloitte Technology Fast 50™ winner (http://www.desire2learn.com/news/newsdetails_143.asp) to continue its focus on business growth and partnership with clients to improve human potential globally by providing the most innovative technology for teaching and learning.

"As we are about to start our eleventh year of business, we are thrilled to be preparing for this move," says Baker. "Excellent synergy will be possible through collaboration and association with other technology tenants in the new facility. It will be an exciting year for Desire2Learn as we focus on our continuing growth plans in an environment conducive to creativity and teamwork."

The rapidly growing client list, now exceeding five million learners worldwide, is drawn from

Individual schools as well as provincial/state-wide implementations
Post-secondary educational markets consisting of educational consortiums, research universities and two and four-year institutions
Government
Healthcare
Corporations and
Associations

About Desire2Learn Incorporated
Desire2Learn Incorporated is a world-leading provider of enterprise eLearning solutions that enable institutions and other organizations to create teaching and learning environments that reflect their vision, values, goals, pedagogical approaches and branding. Desire2Learn and its subsidiaries support more than five million learners worldwide and clients (http://www.desire2learn.com/clients/) include higher education, K-12, as well as associations, government and other leading organizations. Founded in 1999, Desire2Learn is headquartered in Kitchener, ON, Canada with personnel located in North America, the U.K. and Australia. For more information, visit: www.Desire2Learn.com, call 1.519.772.0325 or toll-free 1.888.772.0325 (within North America), 0808.234.6744 (U.K.) and +61 412 067 308 (Australia).

Desire2Learn moving to Tannery building
February 3, 2010 | BY CHUCK HOWITT, RECORD STAFF

KITCHENER — Desire2learn Inc., one of the brightest stars in the local technology sector, has announced it is moving to new larger offices in downtown Kitchener.

The online education company is moving from its present headquarters in the McPherson Centre at King and Water Streets into The Tannery, the renovated and refurbished former Lang Tannery bounded by Victoria, Francis, Charles and Joseph streets.

The move will take place in the third quarter of 2010, the company said in a news release today.

Desire2Learn, which recently settled a bruising patent lawsuit with its chief competitor, also announced that it is “prosperous and growing with more than 40 positions available and dozens more planned.”

“As we are about to start our 11th year of business, we are thrilled to be preparing for this move,” said John Baker, founder, president and chief executive officer of Desire2Learn. “Excellent synergy will be possible through collaboration and association with other technology tenants in the new facility.”

The Tannery will also be home to the new Digital Media Convergence Centre, a $100 million public-private venture led by Communitech, an association of information technology companies in the region.

The 330,000-square-foot Tannery building is being redeveloped by Cadan Inc. of Toronto.

Based in Kitchener, Desire2Learn has a workforce of about 150 employees, including personnel elsewhere in North America, the U.K. and Australia. The company develops software that allows teachers to create websites and run classes over the internet. It is one of the world’s largest players in course management software.

Its client list now exceeds five million learners worldwide, drawn from individual schools, provincial and state-wide programs, post-secondary institutions, governments, healthcare organizations, private corporations and associations, the release said.

Recently, the company got a huge monkey off its back when it settled a three-year-old lawsuit launched by Blackboard Inc. of Washington, D.C., a much larger competitor in the field.

Company officials were not available for comment on the move.

Baker, 33, launched Desire2Learn while still a systems design engineering student at the University of Waterloo. His first contract was designing web pages for professors that students could access to find information about classes.

His first major contract was designing a distance-learning program for the University of Guelph.

Spokes

02-03-2010, 08:35 PM

Great news we're starting to hear about tenants. Im quite anxious to know who will fill the retail and restaurant spaces. As of know, a Balzac's Coffee, maybe a Firkin pub?

UrbanWaterloo

02-09-2010, 08:17 PM

Trash Talk: Reuse in Kitchener on a very large scale
February 6, 2010
Ellen Moorhouse - SPECIAL TO THE STAR
http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/green/article/760265--trash-talk-reuse-in-kitchener-on-a-very-large-scale

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/ee/08/171200fc40b781391e94764d1c62.jpeg
Kitchener's Tannery District is being revitalized. Buildings are being renovated but in a way that retains their historic character.

I love old buildings.

I hate to see them torn down, and I hate to think of all the materials, often irreplaceable in terms of quality, that go to the dump. And I hate to think of the intangible losses, the stories, history and memory that vanish with buildings.

So, it was fascinating to be taken on a tour by Toronto architect Roland Rom Colthoff of The Tannery District, a two-block 2.2-hectare former industrial site in downtown Kitchener that's being given new life and will, in turn, give new life to the city.

Here's where the Lang family tanned hides and produced leather for about a century. During the world wars, the company was the largest supplier of sole leather in the British Empire, according to a heritage study by E.R.A. Architects, helping to put boots on soldiers, saddles on horses and, during World War II, leather fuel tank linings in aircraft.

The project is big. It has a price tag of about $30 million and exceeds 300,000 square feet of space, including retail (Balzac's, the popular coffee shop in Toronto's Distillery District and Liberty Village is opening), new offices and studios within a cluster of buildings. (Originally, there were more than 30 buildings, but small sheds and connecting structures have been removed.)

Some artisans and small businesses with low rent accommodation before the redevelopment have relocated in a refurbished but minimally renovated "Artisan Building" in the Tannery. Other sections are getting a more extensive overhaul, with a glassed atrium entrance and mechanical upgrades, a digital innovation centre and multi-media theatre.

Care is being taken not to overdo the renovation; the aim is to retain the patina of age and reveal the historic industrial architecture. The developer, Toronto-based Cadan Inc., however, is making sure to put in features a young, digitally savvy workforce will want.

As Cadan's managing director Lana Sherman enthusiastically explains: "This is the kind of place that feels like home, it has this really great, positive energy when you walk through it, and everything we're doing in it, all the systems we're putting in, cater to that clientele." That means showers on all floors, indoor bicycle storage, wireless throughout and retail that will support the creative classes hard at work on some cutting-edge inspiration.

Rom Colthoff, the project's lead architect through his firm raw design, points out how the Tannery embodies and facilitates Kitchener's transition from an industrial past to knowledge-based activities, "from boots to brains."

One reason the project is so gratifying, according to Sherman, has been Kitchener's support, a marked contrast to the company's Toronto experiences. The city's mayor cut short a vacation to attend Cadan's first meeting with the city's planning and zoning department, and as Sherman says, "If you have a guy at the top who's sensitive and that involved and that interested in what happens in his community, you know that all the staff is going to be extremely engaged in wanting to see positive change. And it's not just lip service."

Rod Regier, executive director of the city's economic development department, says Cadan's approach was just what the city wanted.

"It's very neat to see a group with their creative energy and their optimism, and their vision for an historic building."

Regier continues: "We're quite committed to the idea of taking heritage resources and working with them. Sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes the buildings are not in structural shape to do that work, but the Tannery is a fortress."

The project fits with other redevelopments in the area, including University of Waterloo's nearby health sciences centre and its School of Pharmacy, praised by the Star's architecture critic Christopher Hume as an act of civic regeneration and an urban icon.

The city has provided support for the Tannery project through tax increment financing (TIF), which allows a developer to recoup brownfield remediation costs through a tax holiday on the increases in property tax payable once the improved property has been reassessed.

What has a heritage project in Kitchener got to do with trash? It's such a wonderful example of reuse rather than demolition, which was for so many years the preferred and profligate approach. Demolition and construction are big generators of garbage, representing an estimated 30 per cent of the waste stream.

Toronto architect and environmental champion Martin Liefhebber, principal of Breathe Architects, looked at Bridgepoint Health's proposed demolition of the Riverdale Hospital "half-round" building, constructed in the 1960s. Pulling the poured concrete structure down would take six months, he estimates, a dirty task, and the 27,000 tons of waste has to be hauled away. The natural capital, represented by water, aggregate and greenhouse gas-producing energy that went into manufacturing its components, is squandered, just when we're trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

Why not reuse the 316,000-square-foot building, which is of architectural interest, as seniors' housing, he asks. Why not indeed.

jay

02-09-2010, 09:02 PM

good article. The King/Victoria are will be booming soon. I am excited to see the final product.

All they need now is to get the old Collins and Aikman plant started in a similar revitalize and hopefully demo that chinese place and put a transit hub for go/lrt, etc...

Once those happen it will do wonders for the downtown.

UrbanWaterloo

03-02-2010, 08:24 AM

March 1, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/TheTannery-March12010-1a.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/TheTannery-March12010-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/TheTannery-March12010-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/TheTannery-March12010-4.jpg

jay

03-02-2010, 07:20 PM

Digital hub to set up shop in Tannery building

March 02, 2010
BY ROSE SIMONE, RECORD STAFF

KITCHENER – It’s official. The new centre that is being created to foster the development of the digital media economy in Waterloo Region will make its home in the redeveloped historic Lang Tannery building in downtown Kitchener.

After months of speculation the centre would be a tenant in the Tannery building, it was officially announced today that The Communitech Hub: Digital Media and Mobile Accelerator, more commonly known as The Hub, will lease 30,000 square feet of space in the building at Victoria and Joseph streets.

The building, owned by Toronto-based developer Candan, has been undergoing a massive $30-million redevelopment. The digital hub is expected to move in this summer.

The centre will partly be an incubator to grow early stage companies that are developing new digital media products, said Kevin Tuer, vice-president of digital media for Communitech, a technology association in Waterloo Region.

In addition to the 5,700 square feet of space devoted to the new enterprises, the centre will also have 3,000 square feet of “partner lab space” for large established technology companies, such as Christie Digital, Open Text, Agfa Healthcare and Research in Motion, Tuer said. They will use the space to showcase technologies and foster potential partnerships with the startups.

“It is all about spurring innovation,” said Tuer, also director of the Canadian Digital Medial Network. “The larger, established companies might give them a platform from which they can build out and roll out their products.”

“There is a lot of excitement building around the creation of an environment where some of these relationships can take hold,” he said. “We are already getting interest in terms of companies willing to move in.”

Digital media is being broadly defined to include not just computer games and social media, but also digital tools that can help health care, finance, mineral exploration and other sectors collect, organize and visualize data.

The centre will also be used for events. There will be space for speakers and meetings, state-of-the-art videoconferencing capabilities and experts on hand to help the new businesses grow.

The digital media centre will open sometime this summer, Tuer said.

It will operate using a similar model as the Accelerator Centre in the University of Waterloo Research and Development Park, Tuer said.

The centre in Kitchener is part of a larger digital media hub that includes the University of Waterloo Stratford Institute in Stratford, which will graduate students who will work in digital media.

The centre in Kitchener represents an investment of more than $100 million, Tuer said, with money and in-kind donations being pledged over the next five years by the Ontario and federal governments, the City of Kitchener and industry partners.

Businesses will also pay a fee to have a space in the hub, Tuer said. “Our intent is to have it be self-sustaining.”

With the global digital media market expected to grow into a $2.2 trillion industry, the various levels of government are keen to have Canada and Ontario primed to grab part of that market. “I think this is the next step in our evolution,” Tuer said.

RangersFan

03-03-2010, 02:03 PM

This is excellent news, great to see "the Hub" as a confirmed Tannery tenant, I really hope this is the start to something big.

Spokes

03-03-2010, 05:02 PM

Ya great news indeed. And especially because they're taking one of the larger (or largest) units. That's usually one of the harder ones to sell. Having a tenant like this is great, and will be very steady and reliable.

urbandreamer

03-04-2010, 12:21 AM

Imagine if Rim, instead of building cheap and ugly buildings in suburbia took over 3 or 4 of these old warehouses, and moved their R&D, marketing etc staff into such structures! It would suddenly give a massive boost to downtown Kitchener, much like you see in Griffintown, Montreal.

Spokes

03-04-2010, 08:53 AM

Ya that would have been amazing. But surprisingly, there might not be enough old warehouses haha. Now if they built a 25 floor office complex, that should do it.

RangersFan

03-04-2010, 08:43 PM

Ya that would have been amazing. But surprisingly, there might not be enough old warehouses haha. Now if they built a 25 floor office complex, that should do it.

Now that would be excellent urban design. It would be nice to get the local governments to offer incentives to the high tech companies to get them to expand or move some of their operations to the urban centres like Uptown or Downtown.

Spokes

03-05-2010, 11:20 AM

Now that would be excellent urban design. It would be nice to get the local governments to offer incentives to the high tech companies to get them to expand or move some of their operations to the urban centres like Uptown or Downtown.

That's exactly what needs to happen. I don't know how much of Kitchener's Downtown Investment Fund is left, but it'd be worth using some of that money. Or giving them the land. RIM is probably out of the question since theyhave thier new campus up in waterloo.

Urban_Enthusiast86

03-05-2010, 02:31 PM

Now that would be excellent urban design. It would be nice to get the local governments to offer incentives to the high tech companies to get them to expand or move some of their operations to the urban centres like Uptown or Downtown.

Honestly, when I look at the types of firms in this region and their locational decisions, I've pretty much given up on the whole tech sector when it comes to going urban. They are almost as anti-downtown as manufacturing and logistics/warehousing, but without any visible reason. Unfortunately, it just so happens that the tech sector is our biggest driver of growth.

Government agencies, universities, and the insurance and finance industries seem much more open to the idea of investing uptown or downtown. Engineering companies (i.e. Stantec), real estate (Colliers/CBRE/etc), and various consulting firms are a bit of a split when it comes to the core areas and the suburbs.

Greg Moore

03-05-2010, 09:28 PM

I'd like to see the Universities encouraged to expand in the core(s) if for no other reason than they offer the most interesting architecture.

Edit: Make that all educational facilities.

Spokes

03-07-2010, 10:40 PM

Honestly, when I look at the types of firms in this region and their locational decisions, I've pretty much given up on the whole tech sector when it comes to going urban. They are almost as anti-downtown as manufacturing and logistics/warehousing, but without any visible reason. Unfortunately, it just so happens that the tech sector is our biggest driver of growth.

Government agencies, universities, and the insurance and finance industries seem much more open to the idea of investing uptown or downtown. Engineering companies (i.e. Stantec), real estate (Colliers/CBRE/etc), and various consulting firms are a bit of a split when it comes to the core areas and the suburbs.

That's by and large the tech secor all over the place though, they love their low rise developments!

Spokes

03-07-2010, 10:47 PM

I'd like to see the Universities encouraged to expand in the core(s) if for no other reason than they offer the most interesting architecture.

Edit: Make that all educational facilities.

I completely agree. Look how good of an idea it was for the UW school of pharmacy to come, and the effect it has had.

jay

03-15-2010, 09:29 PM

Tannery becoming a living community

March 15, 2010

BY MELINDA DALTON, RECORD STAFF
KITCHENER — In a room adorned with plush, pint-sized playthings, Sasha Carreiro’s dream is blooming.

She purposely planted it in a place that will soon be a hot bed for dreaming and innovation, an area long ready for its creative spark.

Carreiro is the proud owner of Little Tot Spot, a combination drop-in play centre for toddlers and social centre for parents, embedded in the historic halls of the Tannery building.

“I have a thing for old buildings and old spaces,” she said, surrounded by vibrant plush blocks imported from Europe and sleek light fixtures. “When the Tannery started doing its redevelopment, I walked through the space and it looked nothing like this. It was just bare bones. But I could just see it.”

The Tannery District, as it’s been labelled by its Toronto-based owner Cadan Inc., is just beginning to buzz the way the developer envisioned when they bought it two years ago.

About 100 people are now working in the building at about different 20 businesses. About half of those were already leasing space in the building before the $30 million redevelopment started, but some have relocated to other spaces in the Tannery.

By summer, Cadan expects around 500 people will be working in the former factory, according to Lana Sherman, the company’s executive director.

The old space will be firmly anchored in the new — the majority of already signed tenants are high tech firms, including Communitech’s digital media hub and Desire2Learn. But, as the Little Tot Spot shows, the building will be about more than just office space, Sherman said.

“We’re trying to create a community because all of the people that are in there are unique in someway,” she said. “The space is so big, it can really accommodate it and because there are so many different creative people in the same space together, it creates a really nice, positive energy.”

Another recent addition to the Tannery community is already firmly rooted in the city’s core.

The Kitchener Downtown Community Health Centre is inching closer to claiming its permanent home at the building’s southeast corner. After nearly a decade at the corner of Duke and Frederick streets, the centre moved into its brand new, custom designed space in February.

The centre is operating amid continuing construction for now. Their former home was slated to be demolished to make way for the new consolidated courthouse and they had to move out before their new space was completed.

They’re compensating by running some programming out of off-site space until their first floor, which will be used primarily for meeting space for their community development work, is complete. Even with the unfinished edges of a work in progress, the centre already has the sleek shine of a modern health care facility.

“Our clients and our staff are big boosters of the downtown area and we’re supporting its redevelopment,” said Eric Goldberg, the centre’s executive director. “This building was a perfect representation of that.”

When it’s completed in April, the space will be about double that which the centre was working with in its previous location. Goldberg said that will allow the centre to grow and expand its services for clients, primarily made of groups who encounter barriers in accessing health care including low-income families, Aboriginal people, new Canadians and the homeless.

The location of the centre, only a block away from the new University of Waterloo schools of pharmacy and medicine, has opened up new opportunities, he said. The centre is also partnering with neighbours even closer to home, namely Pharmasave, positioned around the corner in the same factory space.

The pharmacy opened in October 2009 and owner Ehab Abdel-Sayed said he’s seen a steady increase in traffic since more people started filling the Tannery.

“It seems that it’s going fast and I believe that it will be a great location,” he said. “It’s a very nice building — a very historical building. I think the city is very interested in this area of downtown.”

Cadan has already leased more than half of the 330,000 square foot factory. They’re readying the space now for a pizzeria and high-end coffee shop, both expected to be open by summer. Sherman said the next step will be to attract more retail and services, like a grocery store and a dry cleaner, to the Tannery.

“The people that are in these spaces are not there from nine to five,” she said. “This is a very vibrant, 24/7 kind of building ... We want to make sure the services that are there serve the people that are spending so much time there so they’re happy and they don’t have to stress about kids, laundry or other things.”

RangersFan

03-15-2010, 10:06 PM

Awesome to hear that the space within the building is being leased quickly. What does everyone think of a possible grocery store within the Tannery District?

Spokes

03-15-2010, 11:24 PM

I think it'd be great since downtown doesn't have one. That being said, I don't know where they'd put it. Looking at the floor plans there doesn't seem to be room for one.

Urban_Enthusiast86

03-16-2010, 01:31 AM

If there isn't a grocery store going in 29 King St. E, then I could potentially see the Lang Tannery supporting a grocery store. However, that particular area is very commercial and parking oriented. The population density is much higher near the intersection of Frederick or Queen streets with King street. Getting near the high-rise apartments would provide much more support for an urban-format grocer.

One thing that I'm unaware exists downtown is a Kinkos. I think something like that would do well at the base of the Tannery when you consider that thing is basically a skyscraper turned on its side, not to mention that it's a high growth area with the campus next door and the emerging pharmaceutical cluster in that area.

I like these rumours of a coffee shop opening up there. I wonder if it will be Balzac's, as was alluded to earlier.

I'm very excited to see that there is interest in this development from the high-tech sector. This is really a positive turn from the status quo when it comes to that particular industry sector.

Spokes

03-16-2010, 09:51 AM

Ya you're right. Something like Kinkos would be a success there. Theres a lot that would work, that downtown lacks. I hope it's Balzac's. I think it was confirmed that they'll be there though.

As for the grocery store, my biggest thing is where. Even if you joined a few of the retail spots, they just arent big enough and too long and narrow.

urbandreamer

03-16-2010, 10:37 AM

jay

03-16-2010, 11:28 AM

Casa Mia in Uptown has a pretty good cheese selection, with a lot from Quebec. They say they could have more but they have a hard time importing them in from Quebec over some stupid law/rule. Vincenzos has a decent selection also.

I think a gourmet place could work on a smaller scale with all the people working in the building, and with the University/Kaufman in walking distance. Say they offered sandwiches or something like a small lunch as they do at Casa Mia, it could probably do quite well.

Spokes

03-16-2010, 11:39 AM

Ya for it to work it'd need to be somewhere that served lunches/dinners. There'll be a lot of people working within the vicinity that would make it worthwhile. It's really a shame David's Gourmet shut down, although I'm not sure they really did lunches on the spot. Something like the Nougat on Queen would be perfect here.

jay

03-16-2010, 03:23 PM

David's divorce has more to do with him shutting down then lack of business. His ego is too big to admit that though but he wasn't the one in the relationship controlling the purse strings.

Spokes

03-16-2010, 04:12 PM

David's divorce has more to do with him shutting down then lack of business. His ego is too big to admit that though but he wasn't the one in the relationship controlling the purse strings.

Ya I heard that too. Didn't the wife get the downtown location? Or was that a rumour? (not trying to be too gossipy here)

None the less, he was about 5 years too early. They could have done quite well, just too soon.

garthdanlor

03-17-2010, 03:19 AM

The problem with Balzac's is their coffee sucks. It's very bitter, and imho even worse tasting than Tim Horton's!

Would a gourmet cheese or specialty shop work here? Something like the Distillery District's A Taste of Quebec (http://www.atasteofquebec.com/)? Of course, Kitchener is more historically German, with Fiedler's serving that demo nicely, and various Euro Delis targeting the Polish, Serbian, Romanian, Russian etc communities. One of my favourites in that vein is Nougat's on Queen St S--a pity it's not more centrally located for the non-car driving crowd--does that exist in K-W though?

Honestly, I think downtown Kitchener needs another 25,000 people to make anything upscale gourmet work here.

I think a cheese shop is just the sort of unique destination that would would attract people from all over the region. No need for another 25000 people downtown for the right business, though it would/will be nice.

Never had Balzac coffee, but Mill Street uses Balzac's beans in their coffee porter and that is mighty tasty!

Spokes

03-17-2010, 09:36 AM

I think a cheese shop is just the sort of unique destination that would would attract people from all over the region. No need for another 25000 people downtown for the right business, though it would/will be nice.

Never had Balzac coffee, but Mill Street uses Balzac's beans in their coffee porter and that is mighty tasty!

In this location you could easilly attract people from all over because of the parking.

You're right about their Coffee Porter. Now you're making me want one and it's 9:30. Oh wait, its St. Patty's day, maybe I can justify it?

Spokes

04-11-2010, 09:22 PM

Tannery buildings set to be torn down without public discussion

April 11, 2010
By Terry Pender, Record staff

KITCHENER — A local architect says a group of historic downtown buildings could be demolished to make room for a gravel parking lot with no public discussion or consultation.

John MacDonald wants the city to protect a group of four old industrial buildings on Joseph Street, which formed part of the Lang Tannery, before a demolition permit is issued.

The tannery buildings are owned by Cadan Inc., the Toronto developer in the midst of a $30 million redevelopment of the tannery’s main building across the street.

Cadan Inc. wants to level the four buildings, located at 189-204 Joseph St. and 14 Linden Ave., for more parking spaces for the commercial tenants leasing space in the main tannery building.

Cadan says it needs the parking lot to support the tenants in the main building. MacDonald says the process is flawed and that taking down historic buildings in the core to make room for another parking lot does not comply with the city’s Official Plan.

No public meetings or consultations are required because Cadan does not need to rezone land. As a result, the fate of the buildings will be decided by bureaucrats and the developer behind closed doors.

“I do not have any ability to point out that what is proposed here flies in the face of the kind of urban environment we are apparently working toward,” MacDonald said.

The Official Plan calls for the conservation and reuse of historic buildings and new development that creates lively and interesting streets.

Built between 1904 and 1925, the single-storey brick buildings on Joseph Street sit at the base of an 24-metre (80-foot) chimney — the last industrial smokestack in the city core. All of this was part of what once was the largest tannery in the British Empire. Cadan wants to conserve the stack

As part of the process of seeking a demolition permit, Cadan hired consultants to assess the buildings and write what is called a Heritage Impact Assessment. That document acknowledges the historic importance of the buildings.

Planning bureaucrats and the developer are going over the assessment and concluding what’s called a Site Plan Agreement. Once that is in the place a demolition permit will be issued and the buildings will be demolished.

“There is no mechanism here to hold the city accountable, to hold them to the Official Plan,” MacDonald said. “That is a big concern.”

The Tannery building is now virtually surrounded by parking lots and the western end of the downtown, where the tannery is located, is dominated by parking lots. Most are empty after 5 p.m.

In an effort to inject some vitality into this neighbourhood, the Official Plan was changed a few years ago. Among other things the Official Plan calls for the adaptive reuse of historic buildings.

Under the plan, significant cultural heritage resources (such as buildings, monuments, streetscapes, landmarks, landscapes and possibly views, vistas, trees and intersections) shall be conserved and celebrated.

“All new development should contribute to making the downtown a great place for people with lively streets that are diverse and stimulating,” the plan says.

Leon Bensason, the city’s heritage planner, said the city is under no obligation to hold public meetings on this issue.

“That is not an application that is circulated to the public or involved in any public discussion or consultation, it is just an application that we process through the Planning Act internally, which is approved internally. It doesn’t get discussed at committee or council or anything like that,” Bensason said.

As for not complying with the Official Plan, the surface parking lot will be replaced with a five-storey parking garage with 495 spaces in the long term, Bensason said.

Cadan says it needs 640 parking spaces to support retail, restaurant and office tenants in the main Tannery building across the street. The surface parking lot on the Joseph Street site will provide 172 parking spots.

A row of townhouses will also be built along the Oak Street side of the block.

Cadan has said the best way to ensure the long-term economic health of the main Tannery building is to ensure there is adequate parking for the people leasing space in it.

In early February, Cadan briefed members of Heritage Kitchener about its plans to demolish the old buildings and put in a parking lot. Cadan did this as a courtesy. It was not required to do so and Heritage Kitchener had no official jurisdiction to deal with the matter because the buildings are not protected under the Ontario Heritage Act.

MacDonald appeared before Heritage Kitchener in early March and pleaded with them to immediately move to protect the old buildings.

Only at this point did some members of the committee realize there would be no public meetings or public debate about the future of the buildings. A few members of the committee are wondering exactly what happened.

“Why didn’t Heritage Kitchener protect those buildings?” Laird Robertson, an architect and member of Heritage Kitchener, asked at that meeting in March.

Tim Benedict, another committee member, said he didn’t speak up because he was the newest member and thought the issues had already be discussed and debated.

John Gazzola, the city council representative on Heritage Kitchener, listened to Cadan’s presentation and thought all of the issues had been discussed and debated at an earlier meeting he did not attend.

Neither the developer nor city staff told Heritage Kitchener that no public meetings or discussion would be held because the move to demolish the buildings is deemed to be an internal matter.

MacDonald tried to get the issue on the agenda for this week’s meeting of Heritage Kitchener, but city bureaucrats refused to include it, saying it was not a matter for public discussion.

Gazzola is not surprised. He said the city is keen to support development in the core, even if it is a surface parking lot, in order to justify the more than $100 million the city invested in the downtown in recent years.

“The city is so anxious to get activity down there and they are not prepared to stop anything that Cadan is doing,” Gazzola said.

David Wolfe, a University of Toronto political scientist, said it is a mistake to demolish historic buildings in a city core. Wolfe wrote a book for the Conference Board of Canada called 21st Century Cities in Canada.

In that book he calls reconfigured industrial buildings “essential features” of rediscovered creative hubs in Canada’s larger cities.

When new uses are found for old buildings, they bring new life to the surrounding streets, Wolfe said, citing King Street West in Toronto as an example.

“These kinds of processes feed on themselves, they generate more activity. But if you knock down the buildings and put in a surface parking lot, that doesn’t do it at all,” Wolfe said.

tpender@therecord.com

Spokes

04-11-2010, 09:29 PM

mpd618

04-12-2010, 12:13 AM

As for the issue of if the public should have to be involved, Im not sure they should be. Where do you draw the line? Do they get to be involved in every single decision? That's not the political system we have. We are not a direct democracy, we are a representative democracy. We elect representatives to serve us. If we don't like how they serve us, show them in how you vote.

No public consultations, public meetings, or consultation with committee or council -- this means that not only is public input not sought, neither is that of elected representatives.

garthdanlor

04-12-2010, 12:37 AM

So first of all, I don't think that tearing the buildings down is a big deal. They are all fairly small and I personally don't think they have much redevelopment potential. That being said, I don't think the parking garage is the ideal land use. I understand it's needed for the Tannery to be successful, so obviously there needs to be parking. If they included ground floor retail along Joseph, I think I'd be more ok with the project.

As for the issue of if the public should have to be involved, Im not sure they should be. Where do you draw the line? Do they get to be involved in every single decision? That's not the political system we have. We are not a direct democracy, we are a representative democracy. We elect representatives to serve us. If we don't like how they serve us, show them in how you vote.
Well, pulling the buildings down is a fairly big decision in what is a an important project for the city. Besides, I just assumed that the tannery was a protected heritage site and the city/heritage committee would have some say in a decision like this...guess not!

I really don't want to see a huge gravel parking lot here for the foreseeable future. Much rather see something done with some or all of the buildings. I've been in the one that used to house a window & door warehouse, and it was actually quite large inside and I would think it had some potential. I like that they are hoping to save the stack, but I'm not sure it will have the same impact if it is just tacked on to a parking garage...

jay

04-12-2010, 08:29 AM

They need to do something for the parking. I just wish they would build the parking garage first.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 08:51 AM

No public consultations, public meetings, or consultation with committee or council -- this means that not only is public input not sought, neither is that of elected representatives.

But they would come into play eventually, wouldn't they have some input over demolition permits?

Spokes

04-12-2010, 08:52 AM

Well, pulling the buildings down is a fairly big decision in what is a an important project for the city. Besides, I just assumed that the tannery was a protected heritage site and the city/heritage committee would have some say in a decision like this...guess not!

I think the A site might have been, but the B site was not. If anything they were both just on the heritage register which means they are being kept a close eye on, but not completely protected.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 08:54 AM

They need to do something for the parking. I just wish they would build the parking garage first.

Ya they do need the parking, that's the one problem with factory conversions, you can't add any underground parking. Just look at Kaufman.

But you're right, they should just add the garage right away. The gravel lot will only add 170 some odd spaces when they require 400+. Council should be able to force their hand in it's design, or at least get some sort of firm deadline to start construction. I just feel uneasy about it being so vague in that its a surface lot in the short term and a garage in the long term.

WatDot

04-12-2010, 09:01 AM

Wow that will be a nice addition to Kitchener's "Warehouse District"... a gravel parking lot. :rolleyes:

WatDot

04-12-2010, 09:08 AM

Ya they do need the parking, that's the one problem with factory conversions, you can't add any underground parking. Just look at Kaufman.

But you're right, they should just add the garage right away. The gravel lot will only add 170 some odd spaces when they require 400+. Council should be able to force their hand in it's design, or at least get some sort of firm deadline to start construction. I just feel uneasy about it being so vague in that its a surface lot in the short term and a garage in the long term.

It's becoming pretty apparent that the City of Kitchener is dropping the ball here. As you pointed out Spokes, there's a number of major projects in the immediate area that could use parking. Perhaps the parking garage they are building at Fredrick and Charles should have been built closer to the Warehouse District, designed to fit in with the district theme. The Warehouse District is a cool and fitting theme for that section of downtown Kitchener. They should do everything they can to protect the buildings/theme of that area. Currently there is an abundance of surface parking in that area. Will be hard to sell people on the Warehouse District theme when all that's left is surface parking.

mpd618

04-12-2010, 09:25 AM

Spokes

04-12-2010, 09:40 AM

It's becoming pretty apparent that the City of Kitchener is dropping the ball here. As you pointed out Spokes, there's a number of major projects in the immediate area that could use parking. Perhaps the parking garage they are building at Fredrick and Charles should have been built closer to the Warehouse District, designed to fit in with the district theme. The Warehouse District is a cool and fitting theme for that section of downtown Kitchener. They should do everything they can to protect the buildings/theme of that area. Currently there is an abundance of surface parking in that area. Will be hard to sell people on the Warehouse District theme when all that's left is surface parking.

While I agree with you. Kind of. The biggest problem there though is that one of the primary reasons for even building the Charles/Benton garage was because they needed parking for the courthouse. So moving it closer to the Warehouse District hurts that. Plus, I think the majority of the spots are spoken for.

At the end of the day though it's just further encouraging people to drive to the core. But the reality of our Region right now is that that is how the majority of people will be getting to work, so in order to promote development they have to allow for the parking structures. Which Im not totally opposed to, but like I said, I'd like to see retail incorporated into it, like at Charles/Benton. Im just glad this isn't fronting onto Victoria.

As for protecting the buildings/theme of the area, yes, but within reason. Something like these buildings should not be saved just to save them. They're fairly small and long term hold little value (then again how much value does the parking garage hold...depends who you ask)

Spokes

04-12-2010, 09:43 AM

When the adjacent Charles/Francis/Joseph/Water block is a surface parking lot, it is preposterous to be demolishing these buildings to put up parking lots or even parking structures. And anyway, there's space along Victoria Street between Joseph and Oak for a parking structure.

Two problems there though. First, that lot is a city lot I believe, and most of it is leased to Manulife employees. Pretty sure at least. The lot is packed during the day. And second, that land along victoria is owned by someone else, and there's a proposal for a mixed use building there (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/191-101-Victoria-Street-South-|-12-m-|-3-fl-|-Concept-Plan). Not that it would hold much of a parking structure anyways.

You know, GRT could add an iXpress stop at King & Victoria...

Might be a smart move. It'd align itself more with the LRT route stops then too.

WatDot

04-12-2010, 10:11 AM

Duke-of-Waterloo

04-12-2010, 10:47 AM

First off thank you for correcting me on the street Spokes (Charles & BENSON).

I won't pretend to know parking statistics for Downtown Kitchener. Perhaps the parking garage they are building at Charles & Benson is most appropriate. The hard time I am having is the amount of surface parking they have in the supposed Warehouse District, and they want to add more. The City of Kitchener really needs to think this one through and not jump at the first option in favour of development as Gazzola states. I have to side with the Heritage Advocates on this one. Those buildings could be converted into restaurants or shops. If the area (District) was fully developed my opinion may be different, however the way Downtown Kitchener and this District is now... I think this is a foolish move.

I have to side with the Heritage Advocates too. There is no doubt these buildings could easily be turned into restaurants or shops. For example, I think the Borealis Bar & Grille currently planned for the old schoolhouse at Sportsworld Crossing would fit in much better in one of these buildings that are proposed to be demolished. It would be in a better area with more potential overall. From what I can tell in the picture in The Record article, there is some parking surrounding these buildings, and this small amount of parking could remain to compliment small restaurants and shops. Some of this existing tarmac surrounding these buildings could also be turned into a nice patio area. I'm thinking something really similar to Solé Restaurant & Wine Bar in Waterloo.

This is just a step backwards to everything Kitchener is trying to achieve in downtown. They are finally starting to get it right, and surface parking lots are one of the reasons which landed them in all the trouble and despair in the first place. They should not be baited by developers and side with whatever they wish to do.

mpd618

04-12-2010, 10:51 AM

First, that lot is a city lot I believe, and most of it is leased to Manulife employees. Pretty sure at least. The lot is packed during the day.

Instead of demolishing reusable heritage buildings for it, why not put the structured parking on that existing lot? Going to multiple storeys increases capacity...

(As a side note, if that's a city lot, I sure hope taxpayers are not subsidizing Manulife's parking.)

garthdanlor

04-12-2010, 11:19 AM

Some of this existing tarmac surrounding these buildings could also be turned into a nice patio area. I'm thinking something really similar to Solé Restaurant & Wine Bar in Waterloo.

Solé was my first thought too. If they are desperate for a parking garage, then put it on the existing city lot on the other side of the Tannery. Don't waste these buildings and don't saddle us with a gravel lot for an undetermined time(is that a year or is that a decade?).

WatDot

04-12-2010, 11:47 AM

This is just a step backwards to everything Kitchener is trying to achieve in downtown. They are finally starting to get it right, and surface parking lots are one of the reasons which landed them in all the trouble and despair in the first place. They should not be baited by developers and side with whatever they wish to do.

Worth repeating. :)

RangersFan

04-12-2010, 12:12 PM

I have thought keeping these buildings made alot more sense from the get go, I really do think they have development potential, it would be sad to see them go for a gravel surface parking lot.

taylortbb

04-12-2010, 01:05 PM

Spokes

04-12-2010, 02:03 PM

First off thank you for correcting me on the street Spokes (Charles & BENSON).

Didn't even realize the mistake haha.

I won't pretend to know parking statistics for Downtown Kitchener. Perhaps the parking garage they are building at Charles & Benson is most appropriate. The hard time I am having is the amount of surface parking they have in the supposed Warehouse District, and they want to add more. The City of Kitchener really needs to think this one through and not jump at the first option in favour of development as Gazzola states. I have to side with the Heritage Advocates on this one. Those buildings could be converted into restaurants or shops. If the area (District) was fully developed my opinion may be different, however the way Downtown Kitchener and this District is now... I think this is a foolish move.

Ya you might be right. I just personally can't picture these being used for something like that. Now that doesn't mean they couldnt be, it just means I lack creativity. (or maybe that you guys are changing my mind)

Ideally Id like to see the lot used for something else, not a parking garage alone as planned, but for something that serves multiple purposes on a larger scale.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 02:05 PM

Instead of demolishing reusable heritage buildings for it, why not put the structured parking on that existing lot? Going to multiple storeys increases capacity...

(As a side note, if that's a city lot, I sure hope taxpayers are not subsidizing Manulife's parking.)

Ya if an agreement could be met between Candan and Manulife (if that is who uses it) then for sure. This lot though Id love to see as a really big scale residential or office development. So personally I don't want to see a garage on that block. But I guess it'd be better than a surface lot.

mpd618

04-12-2010, 02:10 PM

I think what makes this situation so ridiculous is that the developer doesn't want to tear down these buildings. There was an article a couple months ago about this, Cadan wouldn't be doing if this there was better transit. Cadan is really invested in restoring old buildings, I'm not surprised they don't want to tear them down. Their tenants however demand this massive amount of parking because telling employees to take transit in this city doesn't go over well.

I think this is the kind of concrete example that needs to be taken to Regional council to prove how desperately GRT needs a funding increase. Our revenue service hours per capita is significantly below the average for Canadian cities of our size. The RTMP recognizes how bad things are, it recommended 3% per year transit tax hikes for the next 5 years, and slower after that. This however is of course politically unfeasible, so it recommends 1.5% hikes over 20 years.

This is a moment for leadership, if someone can step up to the plate! Win-win-win solution: Cadan pitches in for a year's operating cost increase to kickstart an iXpress frequency of 7.5 minutes and late evening service (and a Victoria stop), Region picks up the tab after (as this is part of the RTMP anyway), Cadan keeps the buildings for repurposing and saves money on demolition and parking, heritage is preserved, transit is improved.

By my calculations, a year's worth of extra operating costs for doubled iXpress frequency and evening/night service ($2-3m) comes out to a tenth of what a parking garage costs to build ($20+m).

Spokes

04-12-2010, 02:11 PM

I think what makes this situation so ridiculous is that the developer doesn't want to tear down these buildings. There was an article a couple months ago about this, Cadan wouldn't be doing if this there was better transit. Cadan is really invested in restoring old buildings, I'm not surprised they don't want to tear them down. Their tenants however demand this massive amount of parking because telling employees to take transit in this city doesn't go over well.

I think this is the kind of concrete example that needs to be taken to Regional council to prove how desperately GRT needs a funding increase. Our revenue service hours per capita is significantly below the average for Canadian cities of our size. The RTMP recognizes how bad things are, it recommended 3% per year transit tax hikes for the next 5 years, and slower after that. This however is of course politically unfeasible, so it recommends 1.5% hikes over 20 years.

This is actually a really good point. I remember that article. And at the heritage meeting, the Candan reps said they had people saying they would only sign on with a parking or transit increase. And obviously Candan can only improve one of those.

From a financial standpoint redeveloping that block and leasing the space is a far better choice, but at the end of the day they need parking. I wonder if they could get away with putting it off and seeing if they could make it work. I guess it's tough though with subpar transit service.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 02:13 PM

This is a moment for leadership, if someone can step up to the plate! Win-win-win solution: Cadan pitches in for a year's operating cost increase to kickstart an iXpress frequency of 7.5 minutes and late evening service (and a Victoria stop), Region picks up the tab after (as this is part of the RTMP anyway), Cadan keeps the buildings for repurposing and saves money on demolition and parking, heritage is preserved, transit is improved.

By my calculations, a year's worth of extra operating costs for doubled iXpress frequency and evening/night service ($2-3m) comes out to a tenth of what a parking garage costs to build ($20+m).

AND Candan makes more money once they restore those buildings.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 02:16 PM

From what I can tell in the picture in The Record article, there is some parking surrounding these buildings, and this small amount of parking could remain to compliment small restaurants and shops. Some of this existing tarmac surrounding these buildings could also be turned into a nice patio area. I'm thinking something really similar to Solé Restaurant & Wine Bar in Waterloo.

Duke, this really got me thinking, and its maybe swaying me a bit. I could really picture this. This site wouldnt be ideal for offices, and to an extent retail, but Im starting to imagine it as a great restaurant/pub place. Split up the buildings to have multiple tenants, and then give each a patio which would create almost a pedestrian zone in between the buildings. You could also have it really interact with Joseph street then

Ok, definitely starting to have mixed feelings.

WatDot

04-12-2010, 02:44 PM

Duke, this really got me thinking, and its maybe swaying me a bit. I could really picture this. This site wouldnt be ideal for offices, and to an extent retail, but Im starting to imagine it as a great restaurant/pub place. Split up the buildings to have multiple tenants, and then give each a patio which would create almost a pedestrian zone in between the buildings. You could also have it really interact with Joseph street then

Ok, definitely starting to have mixed feelings.

Now you're talking Spokes!! :)

Seriously though, if they really want Downtown Kitchener to have a buzz this is the type of creativity they need. Surface parking lots just don't cut it. The City of Waterloo stuck to their guns about the public square and I honestly feel that's it's adding to the healthy community vibe they have going Uptown. Kitchener really needs to think about what they are doing. Several things can be in this situation:

1. Improve GRT as other have mentioned (thanks for bringing up the past article Taylor)
2. Work with the major property owners of the area (Cadan, Manulife and the City of Kitchener) and look into a joint parking garage development.
3. Do both points 1 & 2.

Destroying these heritage AND district themed buildings is irreversible. Culture is huge for developing a sense of community. If they continue with their plans for demolition they will put Downtown decades backwards.

Duke-of-Waterloo

04-12-2010, 02:57 PM

I could really picture this.

Does this help? :p Open each in a different tab on your browser, then click back and forth between the two for best results!

Solé & Remax Office (former Segrams Lands)
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.463713,-80.526534&spn=0,0.008272&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.463665,-80.52685&panoid=HPN5iecW42bXJQIV-QdYJQ&cbp=12,171.11,,1,-0.9

Lang Tannery Buildings on Joseph Street
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.450808,-80.499144&spn=0,0.008272&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.450856,-80.499294&panoid=C6o4mxv0stNQ1okLaIqQcw&cbp=12,143.25,,0,2.51

Spokes

04-12-2010, 03:28 PM

1. Improve GRT as other have mentioned (thanks for bringing up the past article Taylor)
2. Work with the major property owners of the area (Cadan, Manulife and the City of Kitchener) and look into a joint parking garage development.
3. Do both points 1 & 2.

Could #1 actually be possible? I feel like it's not that easy (and if it was why the hell hasn't it happened yet?)

I'd like to see 2 happen. I really wish I knew for sure what that lot was used for. Maybe I'll walk down and see if I can tell.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 03:31 PM

Does this help? :p Open each in a different tab on your browser, then click back and forth between the two for best results!

Solé & Remax Office (former Segrams Lands)
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.463713,-80.526534&spn=0,0.008272&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.463665,-80.52685&panoid=HPN5iecW42bXJQIV-QdYJQ&cbp=12,171.11,,1,-0.9

Lang Tannery Buildings on Joseph Street
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.450808,-80.499144&spn=0,0.008272&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.450856,-80.499294&panoid=C6o4mxv0stNQ1okLaIqQcw&cbp=12,143.25,,0,2.51

You make it so easy for me haha.

Ya I think the problem was that I wasn't really envisioning it like that, but as a high density office space, which wouldn't work.

Given the size of the buildings, particularly lengthwise, they could house multiple tenants each. They would have to be creative about how they would do the grounds but it could work. OK, so who's going to email the Candan people and tell them to look at our ideas.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 03:32 PM

Ok, so I pose this question to everyone now. If the buildings were being torn down and a parking structure put up right away (no surface lot) would you feel the same? My guess is yes?

mpd618

04-12-2010, 03:34 PM

Could #1 actually be possible? I feel like it's not that easy (and if it was why the hell hasn't it happened yet?)

GRT is doing what it can with the funding it's been allocated. I'm not sure whether there's any mechanism for private contributions, but I doubt there would be any serious impediments here if a private company wanted to help out -- Council should be able to get that through, I'd think.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 03:36 PM

GRT is doing what it can with the funding it's been allocated. I'm not sure whether there's any mechanism for private contributions, but I doubt there would be any serious impediments here if a private company wanted to help out -- Council should be able to get that through, I'd think.

You'd probably know this better than most, but are they (GRT) at a point right now where they want to do significantly more but cant because of finances?

WatDot

04-12-2010, 03:40 PM

Ok, so I pose this question to everyone now. If the buildings were being torn down and a parking structure put up right away (no surface lot) would you feel the same? My guess is yes?

For me - YES.
Reasoning is there are PLENTY of surface parking lots in the immediate area. Including one (maybe 2) owned by the City kitty corner from the Lang building. The lot I am thinking of borders King Street, Charles Street and part of Francis Street. Redevelop that ugly lot, which has been this way since the beginning of time.

mpd618

04-12-2010, 03:41 PM

You'd probably know this better than most, but are they (GRT) at a point right now where they want to do significantly more but cant because of finances?

Yes. They want to do tons more (entire network redesign with focus on LRT and express routes), but to increase service they need to get more funds. The RTMP will hopefully ramp up funding and allow the service increases they're currently planning.

WatDot

04-12-2010, 03:46 PM

Spokes

04-12-2010, 03:56 PM

For me - YES.
Reasoning is there are PLENTY of surface parking lots in the immediate area. Including one (maybe 2) owned by the City kitty corner from the Lang building. The lot I am thinking of borders King Street, Charles Street and part of Francis Street. Redevelop that ugly lot, which has been this way since the beginning of time.

Ohh I thought you were talking about the one across Charles st. Thats what I was talking about.

Do you mean the block with the TD and McPherson Centre in it?

Spokes

04-12-2010, 04:03 PM

Just look at the google maps view of that area: http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Stages+Furniture+Kitchener+Ontario&sll=43.451579,-80.498135&sspn=0.004323,0.008272&ie=UTF8&hq=Stages+Furniture&hnear=Kitchener,+ON&t=k&ll=43.451151,-80.496751&spn=0.004323,0.008272&z=17

Starting to look like a Big Box Centre!!

Ya these need redeveloped! Surface lots are unacceptable. UW owns the lot across Victoria, but when they'll expand the health services campus, who knows.

Im ok with parking structures, but should the city be building them on their land, or selling that land off? Either way, I feel strongly that all parking structures should HAVE to have a mixed use/retail component. If there was better transit we might almost have enough parking with the structures that we have. Although Im not sure how many of those spots are already leased out.

Spokes

04-12-2010, 04:37 PM

First, that lot is a city lot I believe, and most of it is leased to Manulife employees. Pretty sure at least. The lot is packed during the day.

Ok, so I was off about this. It looks like the lot is owned by Manulife. So Candan would have to enter into a partnership with them. Im not sure that they would be ok with losing all of those parking spots for any period of time. Much the same as the Sunlife lot @ King/Union.

jay

04-12-2010, 05:21 PM

Manulife wouldn't do a partnership with them. I know that from people I know who work there. And that Manulife is considered the worst location to work at (according to employees in the company). They offer a security guard to walk you to your car if you please because someone pulled a knife on a employee awhile ago. Seems extreme but when that happens rumours start. Heck they had a watermain issue 2 years ago and a foul smell came into the building for a day or so and employees in different locations still talk about that smell and how it's still there :).. It's crazy...

As of today with the way transit is now they need that parking lot. It's just the way it is. It's hard enough trying to get businesses in the downtown but to give them reduced parking is not the answer. Until the LRT and a better GRT come around people are going drive to work. Maybe they could have kept a building or so but it's better to have a temporary surface lot and a redeveloped Tannery then no re-devolped Tannery and a couple of old rundown buildings.

Urbanomicon

04-12-2010, 06:08 PM

Ok, so I was off about this. It looks like the lot is owned by Manulife. So Candan would have to enter into a partnership with them. Im not sure that they would be ok with losing all of those parking spots for any period of time. Much the same as the Sunlife lot @ King/Union.

As I recall, when Manulife bought the lot, it was under the condition that the lot be open to the public during non-business hours to ensure enough availability of parking spots in downtown. That particular lot handles overflow from the parking garage that they have built into their complex (entrance is under the big multi-floor walkway over Charles Street).

Spokes

04-12-2010, 06:12 PM

As I recall, when Manulife bought the lot, it was under the condition that the lot be open to the public during non-business hours to ensure enough availability of parking spots in downtown. That particular lot handles overflow from the parking garage that they have built into their complex (entrance is under the big multi-floor walkway over Charles Street).

Ya that's true because I've seen people parking in it and walking away at night

Spokes

04-12-2010, 06:13 PM

taylortbb

04-12-2010, 07:06 PM

This is a moment for leadership, if someone can step up to the plate! Win-win-win solution: Cadan pitches in for a year's operating cost increase to kickstart an iXpress frequency of 7.5 minutes and late evening service (and a Victoria stop), Region picks up the tab after (as this is part of the RTMP anyway), Cadan keeps the buildings for repurposing and saves money on demolition and parking, heritage is preserved, transit is improved.

By my calculations, a year's worth of extra operating costs for doubled iXpress frequency and evening/night service ($2-3m) comes out to a tenth of what a parking garage costs to build ($20+m).

I think this is an excellent idea. TriTAG needs to get into contact with heritage Kitchener and see if we can launch this. A rep from WW could also be involved if that's where WW is heading. I see no reason why the Region or Cadan would not be receptive to this.

taylortbb

04-14-2010, 02:49 PM

This is an open letter that was sent today to Cadan, Inc., the developer of the Lang Tannery project; Ken Seiling, Regional Chair; Carl Zehr, Mayor of Kitchener; and Rob Horne, Regional Commissioner of Planning, Housing, and Community Services. It was also copied to other interested parties.

Dear community and business leaders,

I am writing to you regarding Cadan, Inc.’s Lang Tannery project in Kitchener, specifically the planned demolition of four old industrial buildings in the block bounded by Victoria, Oak, and Joseph Streets to allow for a gravel parking lot and a future parking structure. This plan has been recently written about in The Record.

It seems to me that no one wants to see these reusable heritage buildings demolished to add another parking lot to downtown Kitchener. In an earlier Record article, Roland Rom Colthoff, the architect of the redevelopment, said that the parking requirements of the Tannery could be reduced if public transit improves. But at the same time that the Region of Waterloo is planning major transit improvements to attract people out of their cars, the Tannery plans to add new surface parking to the downtown.

I believe there is a better way, one that is better for Cadan, Inc., better for the community, and better for the environment.

I ask that you consider whether a transit solution can be found to immediately mitigate the need for more parking, and that a partnership be undertaken to finance such transit improvements. This is entirely feasible, because the very transit improvements that would make the Lang Tannery well served by transit are ones the Region of Waterloo will be making anyway in the next few years. If Cadan provided private investment to kick-start such transit improvement, I believe the City of Kitchener and the Region of Waterloo would be able to provide the funds in subsequent years to ensure that those improvements become permanent.

What do I mean by transit improvements? By my calculations, about one-tenth of the cost of a 640-space parking structure, or $2-3 million, would be sufficient to cover the one-year operating cost increase of doubling frequency on the iXpress bus route and adding night service. The iXpress is a very popular express bus route that travels the length of the Region along its Central Transit Corridor (future light rail route), but currently runs at only 15 minute frequency. With 7 minute frequency and a stop added at King & Victoria — which is planned anyway — this would bring schedule-free express bus service within one block of the Lang Tannery. (This improved service would, in turn, spur more use and hasten the arrival of light rail.) There are other possible routes for improvement, such as bus service along Victoria Street itself to the suburbs on the west side.

Helping to kick-start excellent transit service is beneficial to Cadan first of all because it reduces parking demand, and prevents the need for expensive demolition and garage construction. Those savings can be passed on to tenants, who may be more numerous and successful as a result. Cadan could make the most of limited parking by leasing parking space separately from loft space (unbundling), and encouraging tenants to offer employees the choice of parking or its cash value. Such “parking cash out” reliably decreases parking demand and would be particularly effective with excellent transit service. Accounting for such demand management, enough spots could be leased from the many surrounding lots to deal with any remaining mismatch of supply and demand.

Preventing the need for demolition also opens up new opportunities for Cadan in reusing some or all of the currently-doomed buildings, allowing it to reap the consequent financial rewards as well as good will from the community.

The community stands to benefit from the preservation and reuse of heritage structures, from the resulting extra pedestrian traffic due to those buildings and the higher use of transit to get to the Lang Tannery, and through preventing the public health impacts of more driving and more air pollution in downtown. The municipal governments stand to benefit from preventing further strain on road infrastructure and visibly accomplishing some of the goals of their official plans.

The environment is better off with fewer people choosing to drive and, as architect Carl Elefante has put it, the greenest building is one that is already built.

What is the catch? Here the situation is simple: there is none, because reducing economic inefficiency is its own reward. The inefficiency lies in the provision of more parking in addition to the planned provision of high-quality transit service, when the latter would suffice for the same purpose.

You have before you an opportunity to provide an outstanding model of using our limited existing resources to plan for a sustainable and liveable future community. I ask that all parties consider the full breadth of mutually-beneficial options available before you. A win-win-win solution for the Lang Tannery would turn a good project into a great one.

Sincerely yours,

Michael Druker
Tri-Cities Transport Action Group

—–

The Tri-Cities Transport Action Group (TriTAG) is dedicated to improving transit and active transportation in Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge. This open letter has been published at http://www.tritag.ca/blog/2010/04/14/win-win-win-solution-for-the-lang-tannery/

TriTAG will be at the Regional council meeting this evening to read the letter. We will encourage council to direct staff to establish a dialogue with Cadan about the feasibility of our proposal.

UrbanWaterloo

04-14-2010, 03:24 PM

Awesome initiative! :cool: Do you have an idea what time you'll be speaking tonight?

taylortbb

04-14-2010, 03:49 PM

The council meeting is at 7pm, Regional council chambers. I expect delegations will be around 7:15pm or 7:20pm, but that's just a guess.

Edit: Miscommunication removed.

Spokes

04-14-2010, 04:28 PM

TriTAG will be at the Regional council meeting this evening to read the letter. We will encourage council to direct staff to establish a dialogue with Cadan about the feasibility of our proposal.

Well done! This is a fantastic letter! I can't wait to hear how things go at the meeting tonight. Keep us posted!

UrbanWaterloo

04-14-2010, 07:49 PM

Received for info and sent to the City of Kitchener.

UrbanWaterloo

04-14-2010, 09:19 PM

Tim Mollison reading Tri-TAG's letter @ Regional Council - April 14, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/SAM_5663.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/SAM_5665.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/SAM_5669.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/SAM_5674.jpg

Spokes

04-14-2010, 10:56 PM

So how did things go tonight?

taylortbb

04-15-2010, 01:01 AM

Regional council seemed receptive to the idea, it wasn't discussed extensively. Two councillors that Tim and I spoke to after the meeting were very enthusiastic about the proposal, but this may not represent general opinion as they have been past TriTAG supporters. TriTAG will be working with Regional staff and establishing contact with Kitchener staff to move this proposal forward. The big unknowns are the exact level of developer support and whether this will require Kitchener to relieve minimum parking requirements. The idea however does hold promise as the reading I'm getting is that Regional council would approve the plan if the developer is willing to spend the money.

Spokes

04-15-2010, 08:40 AM

RangersFan

04-15-2010, 10:25 AM

garthdanlor

04-20-2010, 11:16 AM

Keep the Tannery buildings

April 20, 2010

Re: Four Tannery buildings set to be torn down — April 12

I am writing to join my voice with those building professionals expressing concern about the proposed demolitions on the site adjacent to the Tannery in downtown Kitchener.

Any successful development in this area must contend with an overwhelming demand for car-parking. In this way, the Tannery or any other building becomes a victim of its own success, for the moment at least, until there are transportation alternatives.

It would obviously be shameful to dismantle heritage to solve a temporary problem, but in the long term one would also question demolition of this group of buildings. I would have thought they are part of what makes the Tannery the Tannery and Kitchener, Kitchener.

Lisa Harmey, Bachelor of Architecture, Royal Institute of British Architects, Kitchener

http://news.therecord.com/Opinions/LettertotheEditor/article/699244

WatDot

04-20-2010, 11:29 AM

Good letter. Blows my mind that the City of Kitchener could market an area "The Warehouse District" which implies heritage and then without blinking destroy buildings with significance to that area for a temporary solution.

If these buildings are not saved for redevelopment, I've lost my small glimmer of hope for the City of Kitchener (City Hall) and their redevelopment of Downtown.

Spokes

04-20-2010, 12:05 PM

Ya, they really need to find an alternative solution to solve their parking needs (an understandable problem)

Duke-of-Waterloo

04-20-2010, 02:07 PM

I would have thought they are part of what makes the Tannery the Tannery and Kitchener, Kitchener.

And what makes the Warehouse District the Warehouse District.

TripleQ

04-20-2010, 04:19 PM

I guess Parking District doesn't have the same ring to it eh?

UrbanWaterloo

04-30-2010, 05:04 AM

I know these organizations have been mentioned before, but perhaps not the amount of space they're occupying.

Desire2Learn: 40,000 SF
Communitech Digital Media Hub: 30,000 SF
Kitchener Downtown Community Health Centre: 21,000 SF

Source: CBRE MarketView Waterloo Region Office 1Q2010
http://www.cbre.ca/EN/Our+Offices/Ontario/Waterloo+Region/Market+Reports.htm

RangersFan

04-30-2010, 06:00 AM

“Cities need old buildings so badly it is probably impossible for vigorous streets and districts to grow without them,” Jane Jacobs — Death and Life of Great American Cities.
April 29, 2010

By Terry Pender, Record staff

KITCHENER — John MacDonald jumped at the chance to lead a Jane’s Walk through the city’s Warehouse District on Saturday to talk about what’s happening to that section of downtown.

MacDonald, an architect who lives and works in the core and sat on a downtown revitalization task force in the mid-1990s, is a vocal opponent of the planned demolition of four historic buildings on Joseph Street that were part of the Lang Tannery.

This tour is among 17 that will be held in Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge on Saturday and Sunday in honour of the ideas and legacy of the great urban writer and thinker Jane Jacobs. Jane’s Walks promote walkable neighbourhoods, urban literacy and cities planned for and by people. There are about 415 Jane’s Walks planned for 29 Canadian cities this weekend and even more centres in the U.S. and elsewhere.

MacDonald wants the city to follow its own Official Plan, which calls for the preservation of the old buildings in the Warehouse District and specifically says surface parking lots will be discouraged. The Official Plan amendment for the downtown was written after public consultations involving about 1,000 people.

“At the end of the day I don’t want to see the old buildings mothballed or the way they are now, but I think we should use this opportunity to do something better,” MacDonald said during an walk around the area.

Planning bureaucrats at City Hall are processing a demolition application from the owner of the Tannery, Toronto-based Cadan, with no neighbourhood meetings or public consultations. The land is already zoned for a parking lot so no meetings are required by law, say city bureaucrats.

The downtown does not need another surface parking lot, MacDonald said as he stands on a city-owned lot surrounded by vehicles at midday. Each evening large sections of the urban fabric are nothing but empty parking lots.

“The idea that we are in some sort of transition where we have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, well quite frankly, what is the evidence of that?” MacDonald said.

“We have broken egg shells over most of downtown Kitchener and all over most of the downtowns of our southern Ontario communities,” MacDonald said.

MacDonald lives on Oak Street, just a few metres from the old-industrial buildings and the chimney that rises 54 metres (180 feet) into the air.

A parking lot there would make for a quiet addition to the neighbourhood, but MacDonald said he would rather put up with the noise and bother of restaurants, brew-pubs, galleries, businesses or condos, if that’s what it takes to save the brick buildings.

He picks up a stone and throws it into a pipe sticking out of one building. A couple of seconds later you can hear the stone splash into water. There is a large cistern under the building that collected rainwater for the Tannery boiler.

The Toronto-based developer CADAN Inc. wants to tear down the buildings to make room for a gravel parking lot. In the long term CADAN says it will build a multi-storey parking garage on the site. The parking spaces are needed to support the tenants leasing space in the main Tannery building across the street.

MacDonald is gaining some support in his lonely fight to save the buildings.

John Arndt, president of the North Waterloo Branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, wrote a letter that was sent to the city protesting the planned demolition.

“It is easy to demolish buildings for parking space; however the creative way is to make this site into a downtown gem by linking it with its industrial heritage. There are too many ugly spaces (read parking lots) in this area,” Arndt said in his letter.

“There should be community discussion with stakeholders — those living and working in downtown Kitchener and especially residents of the Victoria Park Heritage district,” Arndt wrote.

MacDonald sent an Open Letter to members of Heritage Kitchener, urging that city advisory committee to recommend that city council protect the four old buildings. City council could designate the buildings under the Ontario Heritage Act to stop the planned demolition.

MacDonald notes in his letter that members of Heritage Kitchener “generally expressed support” for the planned demolition, according to committee minutes.

“The only thing you are willing to say about this matter is that you are supportive of the demolition of our built industrial heritage in favour of gravel?” MacDonald said in his letter.

At least one member of Heritage Kitchener is listening. Coun. John Gazzola is the city councillor on that advisory committee.

“I think MacDonald makes a lot of good points,” Gazzola said.

Gazzola said he is trying to arrange a meeting where the city councillor, MacDonald and the city’s head heritage planner can talk about the issues.

“There are two sides to every story and I want to make sure we are dealing with it correctly,” Gazzola said.

Lana Sherman, Cadan’s managing director, said in a voicemail the company explored all other possible options for increased parking before deciding the buildings must come down.

“You are looking at a project that is an incredible intensification, it’s exactly what everybody wanted, what everybody has been dreaming of,” Sherman said of the Tannery’s redevelopment.

“We want jobs downtown, we want life downtown, we want a building with 24/7 downtown, with that comes over 500 people, hopefully closer to 1,000 people,” Sherman said.

Jane’s Walks in Waterloo Region

Downtown Kitchener roll and stroll — Is downtown accessible? Saturday and Sunday 3:30 p.m. Start in City Hall Rotunda.

Ending Homelessness, Sunday, 2 p.m., Courtland Street entrance to Victoria Park.

First Successful Flax Mill in Upper Canada, Sunday 1:30 p.m. Start in parking lot at Homer Watson Boulevard and Doon South Drive.

Iron Horse Trail, Saturday 4 p.m., Sunday 3 p.m. Start at flagpole at the Victoria Park Pavillion.

Kitchener’s Warehouse District, Saturday 2 p.m., start at the School of Pharmacy front steps, king and Victoria streets.

Living in Downtown Kitchener, Rosemary Kelly, Sunday 1:30 p.m. Victoria Park Clock Tower.

Mount Hope Neighbourhood, Saturday 10 a.m., start at Lippert Park on Weber between Louisa and Wilhelm.

Victoria Park, Saturday May 1, 10 a.m., Victoria Park Pavillion.

Old Lakeshore, Sunday 1 p.m., start at Parkdale Plaza corner of Albert and Hazel streets.

Historic Village of Waterloo, Saturday 4 p.m., Waterloo Public Square.

The UpTown Loop, Saturday 10 a.m., Sunday 11 a.m., Waterloo Public Square.

Reurbanization, Reuse and Raze, Sunday May 9, 2 p.m., starts at The Grist Mill Centre, 927 King St. East, Preston.

Rivers, Dams and Mills, Sunday May 9, 10:30 a.m., starts at entrance to Riverside Park in Cambridge off King Street.

tpender@therecord.com

panamaniac

04-30-2010, 09:41 AM

I hope that, at a minimum, some compromise can be found to save at least the smokestack and the building closest to Victoria, which seems to be in pretty good shape. Given Kitchener's long history of demolishing any old building with character and the understandable desperation to see development in the Downtown core, it is hard to be optimistic, however. I would wonder whether Cadan and the city couldn't try working together to put a temporay "deck" on one of the surrounding parking lots to fill the parking need pending a more permanent solution. Cost issues make it unlikely I suppose.

WatDot

04-30-2010, 11:09 AM

“It is easy to demolish buildings for parking space; however the creative way is to make this site into a downtown gem by linking it with its industrial heritage. There are too many ugly spaces (read parking lots) in this area,” Arndt said in his letter.

You'd think this would be a no brainer. Maybe City Hall secretly likes the ghetto image for downtown. I hear Detroit has a lot of surface parking downtown.

Urbanomicon

04-30-2010, 12:12 PM

I hear Detroit has a lot of surface parking downtown.

This would be amusing since I don't think too many people would leave their vehicle parked in downtown Detroit. They would probably return to find their car without wheels.

WatDot

04-30-2010, 02:32 PM

This would be amusing since I don't think too many people would leave their vehicle parked in downtown Detroit. They would probably return to find their car without wheels.

You're thinking too far ahead. Detroit has plenty of surface parking but for what? Majority of their heritage buildings are either burnt, beyond disrepair or demolished. Surface parking downtown is not a sign of success, it's failure.

Spokes

05-02-2010, 10:15 PM

taylortbb

05-02-2010, 10:20 PM

The smoke stack is staying regardless, but you'd think if they were going to save one building, why not all of them?

That's actually less than clear. Officially that's the plan, but the engineering report wasn't so clear on how easy the smoke stack would be to save. Said something about not being able to dig down within a 30' radius, and the plan is for one below-grade level on the eventual parking structure. It's also obvious when looking at it that it has significant cracks, it may not be structurally sound.

I went on the Jane's Walk by John Macdonald through the warehouse district. His plan to convince the city to let the developer build parking on the old works yard just north of the tannery beside the railway, which will be vacated when the consolidated maintenance facility is occupied. The city plan already calls for parking there, though eventual revelopment.

Spokes

05-03-2010, 09:29 AM

That's actually less than clear. Officially that's the plan, but the engineering report wasn't so clear on how easy the smoke stack would be to save. Said something about not being able to dig down within a 30' radius, and the plan is for one below-grade level on the eventual parking structure. It's also obvious when looking at it that it has significant cracks, it may not be structurally sound.

From what they said at the Heritage Kitchener meeting I was at, they anticipate being able to restore it and want it in whatever development happens. I guess we'll have to see though.

I went on the Jane's Walk by John Macdonald through the warehouse district. His plan to convince the city to let the developer build parking on the old works yard just north of the tannery beside the railway, which will be vacated when the consolidated maintenance facility is occupied. The city plan already calls for parking there, though eventual revelopment.

That's a good idea. That's one of the city owned lands that's being talked about here (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/448-Redevelopment-Strategy-for-Downtown-Kitchener-City-Owned-Lands-|-Council-Meeting-May-3-2010-3PM). I'm all for it but I'd prefer it set back a bit to have something else fronting right on Victoria st.

Edit: Nevermind, the city's land doesn't front onto Victoria. It would actually fit nicely right at the railway and Joseph at that corner entering off Joseph. It'd serve the neighbourhood well but still be tucked away. On a side note, why does Joseph st turn into Wesley and then back into Joseph? Wierd hah.

Edit2: Another option would be to have it along the railway and enter off Park, but that doesn't serve the Tannery nearly as well.

panamaniac

05-03-2010, 07:05 PM

........ On a side note, why does Joseph st turn into Wesley and then back into Joseph? Wierd hah.

........

Does it? I've never noticed that before. I though Joseph ran from Queen to Victoria St.

Spokes

05-03-2010, 09:43 PM

Does it? I've never noticed that before. I though Joseph ran from Queen to Victoria St.

It does, but once you cross victoria it's called Wesley and then turns back into Joseph

Spokes

05-05-2010, 07:06 PM

They're starting to put the glass up on the atrium/lobby section now. Glad to see some progress on the outside, so we can actually see.

Sorry no pictures. Of course I have the only Blackberry without a camera. hah.

IEFBR14

05-06-2010, 08:58 AM

Kitchener and Waterloo councillors ignore neighbourhoods (http://news.therecord.com/printArticle/706365)
Nurturing the health and vibrancy of urban neighbourhoods should always be a top priority for city councillors and planners.

But that didn’t seem to be the case in Kitchener and Waterloo this week as obsequious officials and councillors ignored interests of residents in two communities to placate a developer, avoid offending those running our universities and satisfy student-housing demands.

In the west end of Kitchener, it looks as though we’re preparing to bulldoze heritage buildings at Joseph and Victoria streets. The historic properties, part of the Lang Tannery development, are threatened with demolition to make way for yet another unnecessary surface parking lot.

Meanwhile, in Waterloo, officials who don’t want to ruffle academia feathers continue to look the other way and refuse to take meaningful action to address worsening problems created by a ghetto of rental, student housing that is destroying what used to be attractive Albert Street neighbourhoods.

It’s ironic that during a week where numerous events were held to honour the late urban activist Jane Jacobs, articles in this newspaper detailed troubling issues faced by the two Kitchener-Waterloo communities. Jacobs was a forceful defender of neighbourhoods and an outspoken critic of any urban renewal that put older buildings at risk.

I’ve written before about the disgraceful situation in Waterloo where besieged residents desperate for a little peace, quiet and quality living are being driven out of their homes by a minority of party-animal students who, based on their childish behaviour, should be sent back to kindergarten.

For years, little has been done about a situation where residents have tolerated drunken students vomiting and urinating on their property. They have watched their communities gutted by tacky rental-housing owned by irresponsible landlords while enduring rowdy parties and property damage.

Statistics show that between 2005 and 2008, police were called to Albert a staggering 2, 486 times. Many of those police responses — paid for by regional taxpayers — were to control student parties and babysit slobbering drunks. The complaints included 107 calls to report sick or injured people and 266 noise complaints.

Back in Kitchener, architect John MacDonald wants the city to stop Toronto-based developer, Cadan, from demolishing buildings to create additional parking in the warehouse district. He wants city officials to support the content of their own official plan which says heritage buildings should be preserved and surface parking lots discouraged.

MacDonald, who would rather see the heritage buildings used for galleries, restaurants or housing, says it’s unlikely public meetings will take place to debate the proposed demolitions because zoning on the tannery land already allows parking lots.

Cadan plans to eventually replace the surface lot with a multi-storey parking garage in a city that is already spending $70 million on other downtown parking complexes. The tannery proposal would negatively impact nearby homes the same way Joseph Street houses have already been degraded near Water Street South by another ugly parking garage.

Kitchener’s car-worshiping councillors and planners who just can’t get enough of those parking lots and care little about encouraging greater use of public transit will no doubt approve demolition of the tannery buildings in their ongoing scramble to justify millions of dollars they have spent on downtown revitalization.

A good example of this insatiable love of parking lots is the $15.5-million currently being spent to erect a 500-vehicle monstrosity at Charles and Benton streets where city council is squandering one of our most valuable piece of downtown real estate in order to build a multi-level parking eyesore.

For the sake of future generations, Kitchener-Waterloo councillors should make more effort to protect their neighbourhoods instead of kowtowing to the demands of developers, businesses and universities.

Spokes

05-06-2010, 04:52 PM

Good article. Really joins two issues that are quite different and finds a commonality between them. It'd be nice for Kitchener to at least hold discussions and think of alternatives, but I can't see it happening.

UrbanWaterloo

05-08-2010, 10:56 AM

KIT: Development & Technical Services Committee
Monday, May 10, 2010 | 7:00 p.m. – 8:00 p.m. | Council Chamber
Agenda: http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item18994_2010-05-10_-_agenda.pdf

Delegations
Pursuant to Council’s Procedural By-law, delegations are permitted to address the Committee for a maximum of 5 minutes.
Item#7 - John MacDonald

Discussion Items
7. Presentation (10 min)

Lang Tannery Surface Parking
Official Plan for the Warehouse District

Spokes

05-08-2010, 03:58 PM

Do the various districts have their own official "plans" or just guidelines for each of the 4?

Spokes

05-12-2010, 11:09 PM

Let’s make the Tannery a true District
http://kingandottawa.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/let%E2%80%99s-make-the-tannery-a-true-district/
10 05 2010

Kitchener is on the verge of making a decision that will determine if the Tannery District will indeed be a district with a vibrant street life or just the Tannery building. The difference is the future of several smaller buildings across Joseph Street that the developer would like to demolish to make way for a ‘temporary’ surface parking lot. Saving the buildings creates possibilities that we can never recapture. The worst part is we would be settling for something significantly less than what we know is possible.

http://kingandottawa.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/051010_2043_letsmakethe1.jpg

Rebirth of Lang Tannery is wonderful

Let me begin by saying that I am a huge supporter of the redevelopment of the former Lang Tannery by Cadan. When I first got involved with JM Drama, it used the building as rehearsal and storage space and I fell in love with the building—actually a series of connected buildings—and dreamed about what might be possible. The adaptive reuse of this site requires a significant $30 million investment that is generating new life for a facility that has been underused for too long. Even before the project is complete, a rebirth is occurring with the opening of the Downtown Community Health Centre, the Little Tot Spot, Pharmasave and plans to locate the Canadian Digital Media Network there. But so much more is possible and I am committed to having the project entirely fulfill the vision that was established by the developer.

I owe a debt of gratitude to Kitchener architect John MacDonald who has brought this matter to the public’s attention and kept it there. My own interest is a result but I am not alone. There were as many as 80 people who showed up on a cold Saturday afternoon for a Jane’s Walk of the warehouse district including the Tannery that demonstrated the strong public interest in the future of this area.

What follows are my thoughts as a result of the information that I’ve learned and my resulting thoughts and recommendations.

Kitchener’s version of the Distillery District?

Calling the project the Tannery District deliberately invites comparisons to Toronto’s Distillery District—another place that has a special place in my heart—especially after announcing Balzac’s as a tenant. Having spent a fair bit of time at the Distillery District over the years, it’s at this point that the local project starts to fall short of expectations without the smaller buildings. What makes the Distillery work as a district are the large outdoor areas dedicated to pedestrians and patios in amongst the former distillery buildings. There’s an exciting mix of uses in these buildings—everything from the Mill Street Brewery, to restaurants such as the Boiler House to art galleries, offices for arts organizations, Soma chocolate and Balzac’s coffee. It’s functional while attracting both tourists and local residents. It’s an eclectic, funky, artsy mix that functions as a place where people work everyday, where they can live nearby yet draws crowds in the evenings and weekends.

How is the Distillery different than what is being proposed for the Tannery?

The Distillery District works because it’s a true people place. Drawn there for a variety of reasons, people are inspired to explore once they are there. They feel alive from the energy they get from being around so many different and interesting people. The magic of the Distillery District could not exist if it was a single building which forced people inside to their destination and left them without any options for lingering and exploring. Rather the large outdoor spaces create an exciting shared experience, they inspire a desire to find what is over there or to sit down and soak in the atmosphere or enjoy experiences that don’t exist anywhere else.

Yet Kitchener is being asked to settle for a Tannery building rather than the more ambitious and rewarding district that we were promised. We’re being asked to be happy with an adaptive reuse of the main block of buildings that people use for a single purpose such as working or taking their kid to play rather than a place that draws people in and gives them reasons to stay and explore. By keeping the smaller buildings across Joseph Street, we fulfill the promise of a “Tannery District.” We create life on the streets, a reason to stroll around and explore, a reason to see what is around that next corner, a reason to enjoy the company of others. By taking down these buildings, we may have an updated building with many individual draws but they are not as likely to work as cohesively since people for the most part will come for one specific purpose and then leave. Much better than what we have had at that site previously but a far cry from the dynamic district that we can still create.

And what do we get in return? A gravel parking lot with a lonely chimney in the middle—and a promise to build a parking structure at some unspecified time in the future. Maybe.

Imagine the possibilities

Take a look at the buildings to be torn down.

http://kingandottawa.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/051010_2043_letsmakethe3.jpg?w=300 http://kingandottawa.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/051010_2043_letsmakethe4.jpg?w=300 http://kingandottawa.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/051010_2043_letsmakethe5.jpg?w=300

Then take a look at photo gallery on the Distillery District website. Imagine the possibilities and get excited. Don’t they start to remind you of the wonderful old building that is now Solé restaurant in Waterloo. Let’s capture those exciting possibilities and bring them to life. Isn’t that what Desire2Learn is looking for by relocating there?

But where will people park?

First off, we must ask “will they need to park?’ We’re making a historic investment in an LRT line that will take people right to the Tannery District. The nearby population has also increased significantly with the conversion of the Kaufman Footwear Factory and the old Eaton’s buildings into lofts. Buses go right by frequently to the nearby GRT Terminal. Parking starts to become a less pressing need in this context.

But let’s accept the assertion that more parking is needed. Can we have more parking and a lively people place too? Definitely, yes. There are several options that must be considered before taking the easy way out. The City of Kitchener could, for example, convert the soon to be abandoned Braun Street Works yard into parking—at least temporarily until a longer term use is found that enhances the warehouse district. There’s also an apparently abandoned warehouse across Joseph Street from the works yard that has plenty of pavement that can be used today for parking. I estimate it would be the equivalent of what can be gained by tearing down the ancillary tannery buildings.

Neither of these options good enough? Then let’s get a bit more creative while remaining pragmatic. Across Francis Street from the Tannery is a full block of parking for Manulife. If a parking garage is to be built, let’s put it there and sooner than later. Let’s include street level retail and perhaps some office space while we’re at it. Surely that’s an investment that would be in the interests of both Manulife and the money behind the Tannery?

What if the number crunchers can’t be convinced? There’s also a surface parking lot owned by the city that is kitty corner to the Tannery between Charles and King. More parking could be put there—maybe in partnership with Manulife and the Tannery?

Let’s clearly state: We prefer a vibrant people place

In short, replacing the smaller building is viewed as the easy solution—the path of least resistance. Let’s stand together across that path and loudly say “No!” to both the City of Kitchener and Cadan. Let’s clearly say that we want the full package of historic buildings to be preserved and to be turned into a vibrant place for people to gather and celebrate life.

Is it too late?

As I get ready to post this to my blog, I learned that The Heritage Impact Assessment has apparently been approved by staff, and so the demolition has taken another, and potentially final, step. So does that mean that it’s too late? In short, no. But the odds have just gotten a lot longer and if you are concerned about the health of downtown Kitchener, we need your voice heard more than before.

Polite, persistent pressure needed on Cadan and City Hall

I recommend that we put pressure on Cadan as the developer and City Hall to ensure they know that the people who live in Kitchener and care about its downtown want the vision of a “district” fulfilled. We need to ensure that Cadan stands behind what it was originally quoted as desiring:

“Give us an opportunity to revitalize and reuse as opposed to demolish, which is what most developers start off with, and we enjoy the opportunity to make positive change, both socially and economically,” [Lana] Sherman [managing director with Cadan] said.

“We are creating a convergence centre, where creativity and business will flourish, a place that caters to people beyond the nine-to-five.”

The Record: May 27, 2008

At the same time though, I’m hoping that we can do so without creating an “us vs. them” situation. Let’s keep it polite and continually remind the City and Cadan that we support the project—but that we want it to be all that it can be. But we’ll need to be large in number and persistent to be successful.

Let’s use these three means to apply this pressure on our friends:

* Join the official Tannery District Facebook page and write on its Wall or add a comment to the link to this blog I’ll add. Indicate that you like the link to this post or share it with your FB friends.

* Let Mayor Zehr and your city councilor know what you think. I understand that the demolition is a staff decision that does not go to City Council but that does not mean there is no role for our municipal politicians. They are in a position to persuade the developer to make the Tannery a true district and could play a leading role in helping make this a reality through playing an active role in identifying and creating alternative solutions.

* Use the power of social media and traditional media.

o Let’s make Wednesday, May 19 Tannery District Day in social media. On that day if you are on facebook, post this as your status: Cadan and City of Kitchener, let’s turn the Tannery into a true district for people. Twitter users can do the same adding: Please RT. If you have a blog, write about this effort on or before May 19.

o Write a letter to the editor of the Waterloo Region Record.

If you have other ideas that are consistent with this approach, I would love to hear them.

WatDot

05-12-2010, 11:19 PM

Thanks for posting Spokes. Couldn't agree more!

Spokes

05-12-2010, 11:24 PM

Yup, definitely a good perspective on things.

One thing I just want to say (while not advocating for the removal of the buildings) the main reason/need for parking is not for people coming to the Tannery, but for the people who work there. I think that fact has been lost over the past few weeks.

RangersFan

05-13-2010, 06:18 AM

Very good read.

Spokes

05-13-2010, 08:31 AM

To me it still seems like there is a massive amount of work to go on this project I am really surprised patrons are already opening up shop there.I'm excited to see this project get finished. I assume they have done a lot of inside work already. The outside pretty much looks the same since awhile ago.finished I really hope the building gets a complete overhaul.

Ya that's one of the problems with building renovations, you rarely see the insides.

I'd be surprised if we see retail tenants in the building even by mid summer though.

smably

05-13-2010, 11:54 AM

Please, if you care about heritage and want to save these tannery buildings, come out to the Kitchener council meeting at 7pm, this Monday, May 17. It would be great if we could get some more delegations, but even just coming out as an audience member sends a good message.

The trouble with this process is that it was handled by staff -- there was no opportunity for the public, or even our elected officials, to weigh in. It was completely undemocratic. Regardless of whether you think demolition is justified in this case, the process is broken, and council needs to know this.

Here are some facts about these buildings:
* The heritage impact assessment (http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item14157_hia_-_36-50_francis_st_s_-_lang_tanning_co.pdf) (commissioned by the developer!) says

The buildings that best exemplify the vernacular industrial architecture of the period between 1904 and 1925 include:
[...]

four single storey industrial and warehouse buildings, site "B"; and
80+ foot smokestack

* If the buildings are demolished, we will be left with a smokestack in the middle of a gravel parking lot. Does this really respect the site's heritage?
* There is already space for hundreds of parking spaces on land owned by the developer.
* The tannery is surrounded on three sides by a moat of surface parking. This new lot would put surface parking on all four sides. How does that make the warehouse district urban and walkable?
* We would gain only 90-100 parking spaces by demolishing the buildings. On an average weekday, there are dozens of unoccupied spots within a couple minutes' walk of the tannery. Many more could be freed up if transit service were improved and drivers were charged market rates for parking.
* The city will be vacating its Bramm Street maintenance yard for the new consolidated maintenance facility (http://www.kitchener.ca/city_hall/maintenance_facility_background.htm#project_timeli nes) sometime next year. This will free up a huge area for surface parking just a block away from the tannery (and with a minimal impact on urban space, since the land right now is a maintenance yard).

Spokes

05-13-2010, 12:07 PM

I think that last point is one of the most important ones. Not that the rest aren't. It solves a solution to the problem without demolishing the buildings. It's a city owned lot that they are looking to develop (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/448-Redevelopment-Strategy-for-Downtown-Kitchener-City-Owned-Lands-|-Council-Meeting-May-3-2010-3PM) so why not sell the land to Candan for a cheap price, they take a hit but do the right thing. Candan can use it as a surface lot and then in the future build their parking structure since it's tucked back away from the street so a structure alone would be fine.

Saying why they shouldn't allow them to demolish them is one thing, providing an alternative is another. If nothing else, get them to defer the demolition and have council think about it.

The one idea I don't like in the blog post is the idea of using the surface lot along Charles between Water and Francis. That's a good property that can be redeveloped which would inject a lot of life into that section of Charles (which it needs). The old maintenance facility lot is out of the way thus making parking perfect for it.

UrbanWaterloo

05-13-2010, 12:46 PM

come out to the Kitchener council meeting at 7pm, this Monday, May 17. It would be great if we could get some more delegations, but even just coming out as an audience member sends a good message.

Thanks for the info, any idea where on the schedule this topic will be? The city has yet to post an agenda on their site. I'll attend at least as an audience member to show support. I don't know if I have the creative energy at the moment to write something, but if someone else does and is unable to attend I'd read their statement for them.

smably

05-13-2010, 02:58 PM

I don't know where on the schedule they put delegations. As far as I know, there is no item on the agenda regarding the Lang buildings, so we will be speaking when they call on general delegations.

jay

05-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Parking problems in core could force demolition of four Tannery buildings

May 13, 2010
BY MELINDA DALTON, RECORD STAFF

KITCHENER — Parking woes in the city’s core continue to push four old industrial buildings to the wrecking ball, despite pleas from neighbours and heritage conservationists who insist the warehouses should be preserved.

“The past is common, it’s shared,” said local architect John MacDonald, who is leading the charge to save the buildings. “The Lang family and many workers have poured their lives into those buildings and they are now the repository of their stories.”

Tannery developer Cadan Inc. wants to tear down four former Lang Tannery buildings on Joseph Street, directly across from the main warehouse complex, to make room for a temporary gravel lot. It will accommodate 100 of the 600 parking employee parking spots it needs to find in the core.

Tearing them down, MacDonald said, will disturb the continuity of the community and destroy only remaining example of an industrial complex in the core.

MacDonald and other neighbours plan to express their concerns to council at their meeting Monday night.

At the end of April, city staff approved a Heritage Impact Assessment, prepared by consultants hired by Cadan, which proposes keeping the smokestack on the site, but tearing down the other buildings which were deemed less historically significant.

Neighbours, including MacDonald, have written letters and made presentations to the city, urging council to step in and rescind the assessment approval before demo starts or find parking elsewhere for the Tannery employees.

Lana Sherman of Cadan Inc. said she’s shocked that neighbours are causing such a commotion over four buildings which she described as being in “really, really bad shape.”

“I think people forget the fact that everybody was really excited about us coming in (and) driving jobs and driving redevelopment and changing the fabric from crap to something beautiful and useful,” she said. “Now that we are doing that and people are coming to work there, they’re saying, ‘Oh forget about that.’ Where are these people going to park?”

She said they have to move now because the building is 75 per cent leased and 120,000 square feet will be occupied in two months. Even if all the spots were found elsewhere, the long term plan is to build a mixed use building on the site and the old single-storey warehouses won’t accommodate that, she said.

The four buildings — known as the Boiler House, Hide House, Bonded Warehouse and Water Softener building — were constructed between 1917 and 1947, according to the heritage assessment. One was deemed to be in poor condition in the consultant’s report while the others were described as “fair.”

The Tannery wants to put 100 parking spots on the site and another 100 on an adjacent former gas station.

Rod Regier, the city’s executive director of economic development, said they still need more than 400 spots and, while the city is working to find other solutions, the reality is parking downtown is going to be at a premium for a while.

He pointed to former surface parking sites undergoing redevelopment, including the new structure at Benton and Charles, the site of the new courthouse and the soon to be developed Centre Block lot as places where parking has been temporarily displaced by construction.

The city is looking at making parking available at the Bramm Street yards, soon to be vacated when city workers move over to the new Consolidated Maintenance Facility, but that won’t be for another year.

There is another multistorey parking garage planned for the downtown’s west end the city’s 10 year forecast, but it won’t come online for years yet.

Sherman said the Tannery is working with the city to find temporary parking in some of the many surface lots around the warehouse district, but most are already full during business hours.

The city still has to approve a conservation plan and a site plan before demolition permits can be issued. City staff said once the conservation plan is accepted, the remaining approvals could be turned around in a few weeks.

At Monday’s development and technical services committee meeting, councillors asked staff if they could do anything to intervene at this point in the process. They were told that several of the approvals are already in place and while they could ask for site plan to come back to them, the purpose of that phase is to hash out technical details, not to change land use.

mpd618

05-13-2010, 09:25 PM

Wow. Not a single mention of transit or walking or cycling in that article, let alone light rail. The only possible way to get to your job downtown is by private automobile.

Is the Sun Life tower really the model we want to be following? A ton of jobs downtown, and an endless moat of surface parking for everyone!

Spokes

05-13-2010, 10:59 PM

Lana Sherman of Cadan Inc. said she’s shocked that neighbours are causing such a commotion over four buildings which she described as being in “really, really bad shape.”

If it's proven that they're in structurally irreparable shape, then ok, but provide proof, not just that they're in really bad shape.

“I think people forget the fact that everybody was really excited about us coming in (and) driving jobs and driving redevelopment and changing the fabric from crap to something beautiful and useful,” she said. “Now that we are doing that and people are coming to work there, they’re saying, ‘Oh forget about that.’ Where are these people going to park?”

You're right Lana, people were excited about you developing it, they still are, and now an opportunity presents itself to further develop the site. There are lots of other options if parking is mandatory.

She said they have to move now because the building is 75 per cent leased and 120,000 square feet will be occupied in two months. Even if all the spots were found elsewhere, the long term plan is to build a mixed use building on the site and the old single-storey warehouses won’t accommodate that, she said.

My issue all along with the "long term" "short term" tags have been that they are so vague, long term could be 5-10 years for all we know.

The four buildings — known as the Boiler House, Hide House, Bonded Warehouse and Water Softener building — were constructed between 1917 and 1947, according to the heritage assessment. One was deemed to be in poor condition in the consultant’s report while the others were described as “fair.”

Am I the only one that thinks the Boiler House, Hide House, Bonded Warehouse and Water Softener building titles could be incorporated interestingly into restaurants/bars that might occupy them later on? The Boiler House Pub anyone?

The Tannery wants to put 100 parking spots on the site and another 100 on an adjacent former gas station.

I thought someone else owned that gas station land?

mpd618

05-14-2010, 02:05 AM

Parking problems in core could force demolition of four Tannery building

Okay, I just can't let this go by. Parking problems in the core?! After we've demolished half the downtown to put up parking lots and garages, the only parking problem in downtown is one of excess.

IEFBR14

05-14-2010, 07:28 AM

Okay, I just can't let this go by. Parking problems in the core?!
A competent politician with the ability to look past this particular development and into the near future would see this as an opportunity to reinforce why we need the LRT and other improvements to the public transit infrastructure ASAP. Sadly we seem to lack those kinds of politicians :mad:

WatDot

05-14-2010, 09:41 AM

"I think people forget the fact that everybody was really excited about us coming in (and) driving jobs and driving redevelopment and changing the fabric from crap to something beautiful and useful,” she said."

"She said they have to move now because the building is 75 per cent leased and 120,000 square feet will be occupied in two months."

Hmmmm... maybe you should turn "crap" into something special AGAIN and realize the leasing success and excitement AGAIN. Save the Tannery Boiler House, Hide House, Bonded Warehouse and Water Softener buildings!!!!!!

smably

05-14-2010, 03:07 PM

Okay, I just can't let this go by. Parking problems in the core?! After we've demolished half the downtown to put up parking lots and garages, the only parking problem in downtown is one of excess.
Reminds me of a Tom Waits lyric: "I don't have a drinking problem 'cept when I can't get a drink."

I like the idea of naming businesses after the functions of the buildings. Another suggestion I heard was to have the Smokestack Pub at the base of the smokestack. Easy to find anywhere in downtown.

Spokes

05-14-2010, 09:12 PM

Spokes

05-14-2010, 09:13 PM

Reminds me of a Tom Waits lyric: "I don't have a drinking problem 'cept when I can't get a drink."

I like the idea of naming businesses after the functions of the buildings. Another suggestion I heard was to have the Smokestack Pub at the base of the smokestack. Easy to find anywhere in downtown.

It's not finding it thats the problem, it's finding your way home ;)

Spokes

05-15-2010, 08:10 PM

Another great post from "Perspectives from King and Ottawa" - http://kingandottawa.wordpress.com/2010/05/14/the-future-of-the-tannery-as-a-district-for-people/

UrbanWaterloo

05-16-2010, 05:48 PM

KIT: COUNCIL AGENDA
MONDAY MAY 17, 2010 | 7 PM | COUNCIL CHAMBERS
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19035_2010-05-17_posted.doc

5. DELEGATIONS
(b) The following individuals have registered to speak regarding the site plan for the Lang Tannery:

Steve Schildroth;
John MacDonald; and,
John Arndt, K-W Region Br., Architectural Conservancy of Ontario

B. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
6. Proposed Parking Agreement with Caden Group (The Tannery)
Council is requested to consider a matter arising from in-camera discussion this date regarding a proposed agreement between the City and Caden Group (The Tannery) with respect to short-term parking being provided by the City. A staff report on this matter will be circulated separately.

UrbanWaterloo

05-16-2010, 05:56 PM

IN-CAMERA AGENDA CITY OF KITCHENER COUNCIL
DATE: MONDAY, MAY 17, 2010
TIME: IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING (3:00 PM)
LOCATION: CAUCUS ROOM
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19038_2010-05-17.doc

6. Solicitor-Client Privilege (Downtown West Parking Solutions) (15 min)
Staff will advise and seek direction regarding an agreement with Cadan Group with respect to short-term parking.

smably

05-17-2010, 09:10 AM

5. DELEGATIONS
(b) The following individuals have registered to speak regarding the site plan for the Lang Tannery:

Steve Schildroth;
John MacDonald; and,
John Arndt, K-W Region Br., Architectural Conservancy of Ontario

I will also be appearing as a delegation, and I'm guessing that there will be a few others who missed the deadline to appear on the agenda.

Spokes

05-17-2010, 09:20 AM

Not going to be able to be there tonight because I have to work, but wanted to wish everyone good luck, and looking forward to hearing all about it.

UrbanWaterloo

05-17-2010, 10:52 PM

Busy council meeting, delegates were interesting, video to follow later tonight.

Spokes

05-17-2010, 11:29 PM

How did things go tonight?

Shawn

05-17-2010, 11:50 PM

Busy council meeting, delegates were interesting, video to follow later tonight.

I looked for you in the chamber audience in the news report on the local CTV station. Didn't see you. They had a live reporter leading the 11:30pm report from City Hall and she said that the meeting was still going on.

smably

05-18-2010, 12:17 AM

I would certainly hope that members of council got the message loud and clear from their constituents.

The gist of it, for those who weren't there: council claims their hands are tied, but they've said that they will try to arrange a meeting with the developer, staff, and local residents to see whether they can work something out with regards to parking. Nothing binding, though. There will be some reports at the next council meeting, but by that time it may well be too late.

UrbanWaterloo

05-18-2010, 03:39 AM

KIT: COUNCIL AGENDA
MONDAY MAY 17, 2010 | 7 PM | COUNCIL CHAMBERS
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19035_2010-05-17_posted.doc

John Arndt, K-W Region Br., Architectural Conservancy of Ontario
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John MacDonald
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/KitchenerCityCouncil-May172010-Lang.jpg

Steve Schildroth
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/KitchenerCityCouncil-May172010-L-1.jpg

Wendy Rofihe
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Kitchener/The%20Tannery/KitchenerCityCouncil-May172010-L-2.jpg

WatDot

05-18-2010, 09:04 AM

Thank to all those that spoke in favour of keeping the additional Lang buildings. Your efforts are applauded. :)

Spokes

05-18-2010, 11:02 AM

How are their hands tied, can't they just not issue a demolition permit?

KingandOttawa

05-18-2010, 11:55 AM

I want to say thank you to everyone here for the interest that you have shown in making the Tannery a true district. I appreciate those of you who were able to attend and/or spoke last night. I'm sure it made a difference.

I have posted my thoughts on the meeting on my blog: http://kingandottawa.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/city-council-hears-concerns-about-tannery-district/

Spokes

05-18-2010, 12:18 PM

Im just going to post the blog post because I think its quite excellent!

And by the way, welcome to Wonderful Waterloo KingandOttawa, looking forward to your contributions. I've been checking out your blog and after growing up in that area, I love what you're saying!

City Council hears concerns about Tannery District
18 05 2010

A door opened last night that may lead to making the Tannery a true District. Thank you Mayor Zehr and City Council for creating an opportunity to find a win-win solution.

For most of the evening, I was pessimistic about the outcome. My sense was that City Council and staff had made up their minds and were determined to support Cadan. But then the unexpected happened and Mayor Zehr called for senior city staff to meet with Cadan to discuss our concerns and proposals. Councillor Gazzola then suggested that some citizens be involved too. This meeting is to occur as soon as possible with a report back to Council on June 7.

Here is the CTV Southwestern Ontario coverage of the meeting. (http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=7375)

I credit the results to the large number of people who came out to demonstrate their concern and the many thoughtful presentations that were made to Council. It was evident that too many people had serious concerns for City Council to ignore and that the people of Kitchener needed their voices to be a part of this process. I believe this was the best possible outcome that we could expect last night.

But it was not a victory. The buildings are not safe. The future of the Tannery as a true District continues to be at risk.

We must continue to make our voices strongly and clearly heard. We must continue to spread the word and grow our numbers. Our ability to preserve our past to create that future for downtown Kitchener that we want and deserve depends upon it. Join the Tannery’s official Facebook page so that Cadan hears directly from us and join the Facebook group to Save the Lang Buildings to show with diversity of people from all walks of life that share our concerns. And tomorrow (May 19), join the Tannery District Day in social media. On that day if you are on Facebook, post this as your status: ‘Cadan and City of Kitchener, let’s turn the Tannery into a true district for people. Please show your support by pasting this into your status for today.” Twitter users can replace the ending with: Please RT.

Another positive development was news of a parking agreement between the City and Cadan that will see 200 spaces reserved for the Tannery in the new Charles and Benton garage until the Bramm Works Yard can begin to be used as a surface parking lot eventually the full works yard will be used for this purpose for a ten year period. The City and Cadan are also planning to erect a parking structure on a city owned lot north of Francis and Charles. These developments all demonstrate the innovative thinking and leadership that I have been seeking.

Unfortunately, the staff presentation to Council indicates that these moves do not go far enough and the plan continues to be to tear down the smaller buildings to create a temporary parking lot that can be replaced by a mixed use building and/or parking structure.

For me that means continuing to emphasize the need for outdoor spaces that attract people and give them reasons to stay. The current buildings offer that potential. What is being proposed does nothing to create the street life that brings a downtown alive. We must continue to push for nothing less.

Let me conclude with how I began last night.

Sunday afternoon was beautiful. Without being there, I can guarantee that the Distillery District in Toronto was packed with people. I understand that Victoria Park was too. But downtown Kitchener? Not a chance. Not yesterday and not after demolishing the four smaller buildings that comprise the former Lang Tannery.

On the other hand, imagine people making the short walk from Victoria Park to the Tannery District and then spilling onto King Street. That’s a picture that could be our reality on a beautiful Sunday in May a couple years from now but only if we act today to preserve our past to create that future.

I was asked if I thought that Kitchener-Waterloo could support the vision I presented. On the way home, I wished that I had stated that we are not a small market any longer. Rather, Waterloo Region is now 500,000 strong. I also wished I had mentioned this anecdote:

On Friday, my family went to eat at a restaurant on King near Queen. After dinner, we wanted to go for a walk. King Street was dead several places that we hoped to be open were closed. So we headed to Victoria Park that was bustling with life because it is a true people place. If a Tannery District existed, I am confident that it too would have been buzzing with life on both Friday night and Sunday.

So I conclude that keeping the Tannery intact can be a catalyst in the revitalization of downtown Kitchener. Now we must finish our work and convince Cadan and the city.

http://kingandottawa.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/city-council-hears-concerns-about-tannery-district/

mpd618

05-18-2010, 12:52 PM

How are their hands tied, can't they just not issue a demolition permit?

For reasons I am not entirely clear about, it seems one is not needed. The developer-commissioned Heritage Impact Assessment (that says the four buildings have no value) has been approved by staff, the zoning allows for the surface parking, and that's it.

UrbanWaterloo

05-18-2010, 01:30 PM

KIT: COUNCIL AGENDA
MONDAY MAY 17, 2010 | 7 PM | COUNCIL CHAMBERS
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19035_2010-05-17_posted.doc

Second staff speaker regarding the parking agreement with Cadan. Both spoke before the delegations.
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Spokes

05-18-2010, 01:49 PM

For reasons I am not entirely clear about, it seems one is not needed. The developer-commissioned Heritage Impact Assessment (that says the four buildings have no value) has been approved by staff, the zoning allows for the surface parking, and that's it.

Hmm that's odd, I didn't think an HIA could double as a demolition permit.

IEFBR14

05-18-2010, 04:05 PM

Mayor looks for alternatives to demolition of tannery buildings (http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/713581)
Mayor Carl Zehr says discussions will be held with a developer to explore alternatives to the demolition of our historic buildings on Joseph Street.

More than 75 people packed the council chambers at City Hall on Monday demanding that something be done to prevent the demolition of the buildings near Joseph and Linden streets that were part of the Lang Tannery.

Toronto-based Cadan Inc., wants to tear down the brick buildings to make room for a gravel parking lot. The developer says the parking spaces are needed to support the tenants leasing space in the main tannery building across the street.

Zehr promised that senior staff, the developer and community representatives would meet after listening to several presentations from residents who are strongly opposed to the demolition of the buildings.

Zehr said he wants this dealt with on an urgent basis.

The public delegations at Monday’s meeting were very clear — there are too many surface parking lots in the downtown now and historic buildings should not be sacrificed to make room for another one.

“Many of the parking areas in the downtown area are for suburban people who just drive in, work for the day and then drive home to suburbia,” Steven Schildroth said in a presentation to councillors.

“But we live here. This is our home and our home should be treated with respect,” Schildroth said.

Coun. Geoff Lorentz repeatedly told the delegates there was nothing city council could do because the issues were decided by city staff working with the developer.

But Jason Hammond, another delegate, said city council set up this process and city council can change it.

“If there is truly no action available to council, personally, I find that disturbing,” Hammond said.

Several delegations reminded city councillors that tearing down historic buildings to make room for a gravel parking lot is a violation of the city’s Official Plan, which calls for the preservation of such buildings and says surface parking should be discouraged.

Spokes

05-18-2010, 04:14 PM

If they allow them to be torn down, most members of council are going to be painted as hypocrites for not following the official plan and doing what's right for downtown. Could really hurt them come election time. Now's the time for them to step up and show they are committed to downtown and show they are capable of thinking outside the box.

Walking by the buildings today I realized how big they really are. They can house a lot, but I would personally like to see a group of restaurants and pubs, and maybe some shops. I think between some of them you could have some cool patios that would butt up against one another. In the biggest building, you could easily separate it into a few different units. Lots of possibilities. Cadan has shown they are capable of turning old buildings into something great, they should work their magic here too.

Spokes

05-18-2010, 11:38 PM

There is a similar situation going on in Ottawa right now, there is a convent site that was to be developed, after a lot of people getting upset, the Ottawa Heritage Committee gave it heritage status which is resulting in it being very difficult to develop. (Details about the Les Soeurs de la Visitation Convent can be found here) (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=178158)

Couldn't council do something like that to protect these buildings?

UrbanWaterloo

05-19-2010, 05:14 AM

KIT: COUNCIL AGENDA
MONDAY MAY 17, 2010 | 7 PM | COUNCIL CHAMBERS
http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19035_2010-05-17_posted.doc

First staff speaker regarding the parking agreement with Cadan. Both spoke before the delegations.
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IEFBR14

05-19-2010, 09:18 AM

Kitchener faces showdown over Lang tannery buildings scheduled to be demolished to put up a parking lot (http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/713581)
Heritage experts say city councillors can move immediately to protect four historic buildings on Joseph Street to prevent a developer from demolishing the old structures to make room for a parking lot.

When more than 75 people attended a city council meeting on Monday to protest against the proposed demolition of the buildings at 189-205 Joseph St. and 14 Linden Ave., they were repeatedly told there is nothing city councillors can do at this point to save the one-storey brick structures that are part of the Lang Tannery.

“I don't think that's true, council can do whatever it likes, it can overrule anybody,” Rollo Myers, general manager of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, said in an interview Tuesday.

The buildings can be protected from demolition if city council votes to designate the brick sheds and warehouses under the Ontario Heritage Act.

“What you want is a pro-heritage council member to lead the rush,” Myers said. “Now if a building is designated you can't tear it down — simple as that.”

City bureaucrats have accepted a report that says the buildings do not meet the criteria for designation under the Ontario Heritage Act.

That report — known as a Heritage Impact Assessment — was prepared by consultants working for and paid by the developer, Toronto-based Cadan Inc.

Even though city bureaucrats have accepted that report, city councillors still have the authority to designate the buildings under the Ontario Heritage Act, said Marc Kemerer, a lawyer who specializes in heritage law.

“They can always designate under the Heritage Act,” said Kemerer, the former top lawyer for the City of Toronto who currently heads that city's Historical Society.

As long as the buildings have architectural, historical or cultural significance they qualify for designation under the Ontario Heritage Act, said Kemerer.

The members of the public who came out on Monday were not told any of this by bureaucrats or city councillors. In fact, they were told the opposite.

“Really, our hands are tied,” Coun. Geoff Lorentz told the people who oppose demolition.

Lorentz added later: “When people own property it is called private property. You just can't go in and tell them what to do.”

But city council did just that a couple of years ago. Councillors voted to designate 70 King St. E, a former bank at King and Frederick streets., even though the developer-owner was opposed to the designation. Council designated the building and it was successfully redeveloped as a Crabby Joe's franchise.

Over the objections of several homeowners in the past, city council voted to include their properties in Heritage Conservation Districts as well.

But that track record was never brought up at the council meeting on Monday.

“There is no role for council in the approvals,” Coun. Berry Vrbanovic, said of Cadan's application for a demolition permit for the tannery buildings.

Jason Hammond, another delegate, said city council set up this process being used by Cadan for seeking a demolition permit and city council can change it.

“If there is truly no action available to council, personally, I find that disturbing,” Hammond said.

The overwhelming impression given by councillors and staff is that nothing could be done to stop the process.

“Is there anything this council could do?” Coun. John Gazzola asked city staff.

“Not with respect to the HIA (Heritage Impact Assessment),” said Alain Pinard, the city manager of long-term planning.

Cadan Inc. wants to tear down the buildings to make room for a gravel parking lot. The developer says the parking spaces are needed to support the tenants leasing space in the main tannery building across the street. The best way to ensure the economic health of the main tannery building is to make sure there is enough parking for its tenants, Cadan has stressed.

The public delegations at Monday's meeting were very clear — there are too many surface parking lots in the downtown now and historic buildings should not be sacrificed to make room for another one.

“Many of the parking areas in the downtown area are for suburban people who just drive in, work for the day and then drive home to suburbia,” Steven Schildroth said in a presentation to councillors.

“But we live here. This is our home and our home should be treated with respect.”

Several delegations reminded city councillors that tearing down historic buildings to make room for a gravel parking lot is a violation of the city's own Official Plan, which calls for the preservation of such buildings and says surface parking should be discouraged.

John MacDonald, a local architect, noted the developer's Heritage Impact Assessment says, in part, the Lang tannery complex could be considered part of a “significant cultural heritage landscape as per the definitions in the Provincial Policy Statement.”

The Provincial Policy Statement, a government document that is to guide land use in Ontario cities, clearly states: “Significant cultural heritage landscapes shall be conserved,” MacDonald said.

John McBride, the city's head of parking, said the city-owned parking lots in the west area of downtown are “over capacity,” and there is a waiting list of 70 for spots.

But Sylvan Mably, in his presentation to council, showed pictures of those parking lots with lots of empty spaces between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. on a Wednesday, when there is presumably a peak demand for parking.

Downtown parking is heavily subsidized by taxpayers and the city should charge more money for parking on city-owned lots in order to reduce the demand and encourage the use of public transit, Mably said.

Rod Regier, the city's director of economic development, said city policy calls for increasing parking rates at twice the rate of inflation.

Wendy Rofihe, who holds a Master's degree in heritage conservation, said there were no public consultations on the move to demolish the building.

“It seems as more people hear about the proposed demolition, opposition grows,” Rofihe said.

At the end of Monday's meeting, Mayor Carl Zehr instructed city staff to arrange a meeting among the developer, senior bureaucrats and a couple of residents from the community. Zehr hopes the parties can come to an agreement that makes everyone happy.

In an interview Tuesday, Zehr acknowledged that city council could designate the buildings under the Ontario Heritage Act to protect them.

“Everybody would acknowledge that you could designate, but that wasn't the sole issue here,” he said.

“The sole issue here is trying to work together to resolve it and probably to everybody's satisfaction. The process that is in place is actually moving toward a resolution, a very peaceful resolution.”

Spokes

05-19-2010, 10:03 AM

Wow, this article ties in perfectly to my last post.

So if these were designated under the Ontario Heritage Act, would that make it harder then to restore them?

It's frustrating hearing council members (Lorentz) saying things that are completely wrong, get your facts straight. They used an excellent example of the old TD Bank being designated as heritage, but that worked out for Crabby Joe's. It can work out for Cadan as well.

The biggest thing that concerns me is hearing both councilors and staff say there's nothing they can do. I understand they need to stay in the good books of developers, but this seems like simply bowing down to their every wish just to make them happy. I'm glad so many people came out, that seemed to force them to look at this situation, which is causing more people to speak out such as this info about designating it as a heritage building, an idea that was previously ignored.

Also, great to see our own smably getting some press ;) Way to bring up the empty spots! "Over capacity" doesn't always mean they're being used.

It's going to be interesting to see how many, and who, they pick as community representatives to meet with the bureaucrats and Cadan. Lets hope that goes well.

smably

05-19-2010, 11:45 AM

Here is the presentation I gave to Kitchener City Council on Monday:
31612212&access_key=key-cd02zjbl230y9h6au79

The photos in the "parking district" tour were all taken between 2:30 and 3:00 a week ago today. Check out the last photo -- that's the city lot at the corner of Francis and Charles. You can see there are 30-40 spaces free.

The problem is not that there's a shortage of parking in the west end, it's that there is a great deal of inefficiency. At any given time there are hundreds of free parking spaces, but there is still a supposed parking shortage. Allocate parking more efficiently and the problem is solved.

Spokes

05-19-2010, 11:53 AM

The photos in the "parking district" tour were all taken between 2:30 and 3:00 a week ago today. Check out the last photo -- that's the city lot at the corner of Francis and Charles. You can see there are 30-40 spaces free.

The problem is not that there's a shortage of parking in the west end, it's that there is a great deal of inefficiency. At any given time there are hundreds of free parking spaces, but there is still a supposed parking shortage. Allocate parking more efficiently and the problem is solved.

Great presentation!! Wish I could have been there to see it and support it.

How do you mean allocate it more efficiently? What makes it so inefficient now?

smably

05-19-2010, 12:03 PM

Well, right now you have hundreds of spots in the Kaufman lot that are empty during the day and full at night. The opposite is true of all the retail and office lots nearby.

The other inefficiency is the spots reserved for retail in the district -- the Ziggy's lot, the Beer Store lot, all the smaller private lots scattered around -- don't seem to be very heavily used most of the time, and yet there is supposedly a huge parking demand for the 9-5 office workers.

Spokes

05-19-2010, 12:15 PM

Ya that's true. I agree with you about all the spots reserved for retail. Not as much the Kaufman lot. Sure it's empty for the most part during the day, but those spots are owned by residents, so I don't know that the city could have any control over that. If residents wanted to rent them out during they day they could, but unfortunately with the market, they wouldn't get much. Ideally there would have been an underground lot, but with most factory conversions I don't think that seems to happen.

The main thing is that as you mentioned a lot of the retail lots dont need nearly as much parking as they have.

mpd618

05-19-2010, 12:29 PM

If residents wanted to rent them out during they day they could, but unfortunately with the market, they wouldn't get much.

The city-owned lot at King & Francis goes for $113 + taxes a month, and has a waiting list. At Monday's council meeting, staff said they have 70 people on parking waiting lists. I'm willing to bet that much of that demand is purely 9 to 5.. Not to mention that there are surely Kaufman owners who don't even use their parking.

smably

05-19-2010, 12:32 PM

Spokes

05-19-2010, 12:34 PM

The city-owned lot at King & Francis goes for $113 + taxes a month, and has a waiting list. At Monday's council meeting, staff said they have 70 people on parking waiting lists. I'm willing to bet that much of that demand is purely 9 to 5.. Not to mention that there are surely Kaufman owners who don't even use their parking.

So why not jack that price up (more than the twice the rate of inflation Regier mentioned) so that you a) generate more revenue, b) open up some spaces and c) maybe encourage transit.

A lot of these people are down here for work so they have to be there, but they don't have to drive.

Does every unit at Kaufman have a parking spot??

Spokes

05-19-2010, 12:36 PM

The city may not have direct control over the Kaufman spots, but there are some innovative solutions that they could have a part in. I was thinking of some kind of parking market, where loft owners with a parking spot they don't use during the day could offer their parking space, and office workers who need a parking space could browse available spaces. Everyone wins: loft owners could make money renting out their space, workers get a place to park, and the city gets a warehouse district with less surface parking.

The reason Kaufman owners don't rent out their spots is that there is no easy way to do so. First you have to actually find someone who wants your spot, then you have to figure out how much to pay them, then you have to collect the money. People don't want to become a landlord for their parking spot. The city could make it much easier for this kind of transaction to happen.

What do you think, could it work?

I think it could work, similar things happen in other cities. I think I've seen it happen in Ottawa. Its just a matter of setting up the system and getting a few people interested. Would the residents set the rate? Im sure the cars in the Kaufman lot could be compressed together a bit. All the empty spaces in between cars could result in a big empty space at one end of the lot.

The problem is, and this is where you'll loose council (if they're the ones organizing it), you used the word innovative. Things that use that word don't tend to happen here hah.

panamaniac

05-19-2010, 12:45 PM

The city may not have direct control over the Kaufman spots, but there are some innovative solutions that they could have a part in. I was thinking of some kind of parking market, where loft owners with a parking spot they don't use during the day could offer their parking space, and office workers who need a parking space could browse available spaces. Everyone wins: loft owners could make money renting out their space, workers get a place to park, and the city gets a warehouse district with less surface parking.

The reason Kaufman owners don't rent out their spots is that there is no easy way to do so. First you have to actually find someone who wants your spot, then you have to figure out how much to pay them, then you have to collect the money. People don't want to become a landlord for their parking spot. The city could make it much easier for this kind of transaction to happen.

What do you think, could it work?

I have been a condo owner who rented my parking space privately in the past and there was no problem (I did not own a car at the time), but many condo corporations might have issues with it being done on a large scale for insurance and liability reasons. There are also practical problems like what happens if you come home and your space is still occupied because someone had to work late? None of that seems insurmountable, however.

KLM

05-19-2010, 12:48 PM

would be shame if they tear down those buildings,for sake of parking.

as for parking for kaufman I like idea ,and generally on this forum lots of great ideas but can we do something those ideas are heard?

who is in charge here to present to city ,region etc these ideas?
or you just have to show up yourself and simply speak up?

jay

05-19-2010, 04:14 PM

Does every unit at Kaufman have a parking spot??

Yes, and all the 2 bedrooms came with a second free spot.

jay

05-19-2010, 04:16 PM

My buddy rents a spot from Ok Tire on Victoria across from his loft. That building is sold and will be demo'd sometime in the future. He also got something in the mail about the End of the roll building from the city.

Spokes

05-19-2010, 04:37 PM

Yes, and all the 2 bedrooms came with a second free spot.

See that doesn't make sense for me, to automatically give a 2nd spot. That combined with everyone getting a spot is why there are so many empty spots. Much more space is being used than needs to be. A damn shame if you ask me.

jay

05-19-2010, 04:59 PM

Spokes

05-19-2010, 05:01 PM

Well it's because all the 2 bedrooms usually have 2 or more people living in the unit, hence, the second spot. Least they got it for free, unlike the 15k I paid for my extra one in Bauer, or the 20k the42 asked, or 30k 144 Park is asking.

See I personally think that makes more sense, that way, if you want an extra spot you pay for it, if you dont you dont. Same could be said for the first spot.

IEFBR14

05-19-2010, 05:01 PM

The reason Kaufman owners don't rent out their spots is that there is no easy way to do so. First you have to actually find someone who wants your spot, then you have to figure out how much to pay them, then you have to collect the money. People don't want to become a landlord for their parking spot. The city could make it much easier for this kind of transaction to happen.
Actually it works quite well at Luther Village. There are notices on the bulletin boards with people looking for or offering extra parking spaces, both underground and surface. Units originally came with one spot, however, some residents paid extra for a second spot. While you can even get a unit with no parking spot, that's considered a bad idea because it could make resale difficult. So people who have spots they don't use will rent them out. Of course this is a retirement facility that's more closely knit than regular developments. Also virtually all rentals are to other residents who need an additional space. As someone pointed out above, there could be access, security and insurance issues with renting to people who live elsewhere.

But the concept seems workable, especially if a broker set up an exchange (a website?) to facilitate it.

Would a $5 or $10 per month commission for brokering the deal and collecting rent, etc. be enough to make a business case? I can't see why most owners would give up more than that.

taylortbb

05-19-2010, 05:06 PM

Least they got it for free

The issue is that it's not really free, it just means it's built into the cost of the unit. When you put that price in front of people it makes them really think about how badly they need that second parking spot. Even in the Bauer lofts the non-second space people are subsiding the second spaces of those who want them, underground parking costs about $45,000/spot, $15,000 is a pretty serious discount. If I bought a 2 bedroom with one space I wouldn't be too happy about the $15,000 to $20,000 of my cost that went to your parking space (prices depending on ratio of one space to two space units.

Spokes

05-19-2010, 05:14 PM

Actually it works quite well at Luther Village. There are notices on the bulletin boards with people looking for or offering extra parking spaces, both underground and surface. Units originally came with one spot, however, some residents paid extra for a second spot. While you can even get a unit with no parking spot, that's considered a bad idea because it could make resale difficult. So people who have spots they don't use will rent them out. Of course this is a retirement facility that's more closely knit than regular developments. Also virtually all rentals are to other residents who need an additional space. As someone pointed out above, there could be access, security and insurance issues with renting to people who live elsewhere.

But the concept seems workable, especially if a broker set up an exchange (a website?) to facilitate it.

Would a $5 or $10 per month commission for brokering the deal and collecting rent, etc. be enough to make a business case? I can't see why most owners would give up more than that.

Thinking of starting up a business? ;)

jay

05-19-2010, 05:26 PM

The issue is that it's not really free, it just means it's built into the cost of the unit. When you put that price in front of people it makes them really think about how badly they need that second parking spot. Even in the Bauer lofts the non-second space people are subsiding the second spaces of those who want them, underground parking costs about $45,000/spot, $15,000 is a pretty serious discount. If I bought a 2 bedroom with one space I wouldn't be too happy about the $15,000 to $20,000 of my cost that went to your parking space (prices depending on ratio of one space to two space units.

I know it's built into the price, but the Kaufman units were really cheap when they hit the market. 171k-223k for all the 2 bedrooms. So I think they got a very good deal. To compare I bought a Bauer unit the same time Kaufman went on sale and I paid more for my 1 bedroom (1 spot) unit then 2 out of the 3, 2 bedroom units at Kaufman.

IEFBR14

05-19-2010, 05:32 PM

underground parking costs about $45,000/spot, $15,000 is a pretty serious discountAt Luther Village an underground parking spot changes hands for $15,000 to $16,000 (as of last year) and IIRC they rent privately for $25 or $30 per month.

Thinking of starting up a business? ;)Nope. But someone else might be able to do so profitably, especially if they operated at multiple buildings and operated only online.

jay

05-19-2010, 05:37 PM

$25-$30 is cheap. for underground. I know people at Bauer charge 100-125/month and Kaufman is $50-70

mpd618

05-19-2010, 07:27 PM

But someone else might be able to do so profitably, especially if they operated at multiple buildings and operated only online.

I think this is something a Regional parking authority should be providing as a public service.

taylortbb

05-19-2010, 08:21 PM

At Luther Village an underground parking spot changes hands for $15,000 to $16,000 (as of last year) and IIRC they rent privately for $25 or $30 per month.

I was going based on average construction costs. Based on several regional projects, plus comments from architects, I find good numbers are: $5,000/space for surface, $30,000/space for structure, and $45,000/space for underground. All of those exclude land acquisition costs. Just because the builder built enough that they change hands at $15,000/space doesn't mean that was the constuction cost.

panamaniac

05-19-2010, 11:08 PM

Bauer allows owners to rent out underground parking? Do you mean to other building owners/occupants, or to outsiders? The latter would make me very nervous about building security.

IEFBR14

05-20-2010, 09:04 AM

Kitchener should protect the Lang Tannery buildings (http://news.therecord.com/printArticle/713722)
It’s often said that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

That appears to be true in Kitchener where obfuscating councillors and bureaucrats are about to waste another opportunity to display a glimmer of planning vision by allowing four historic buildings to be torn down and replaced by a sterile parking lot.

This potential blunder at the Lang Tannery buildings in the city’s west-end would repeat former heritage debacles that also involved insatiable appetites for parking and resulted in the destruction of Kitchener’s old city hall in 1973 and demolition of the John Forsyth shirt factory in 2006.

Now, instead of helping create a vibrant local version of Toronto’s historic, east-end Distillery District, councillors and staff are backing a demolition-derby scheme where Cadan Developments will bulldoze buildings off Joseph Street to create — be still my esthetic heart — a dusty, gravel-covered parking lot.

One of the things making this scheme so unpalatable is that it has been rammed through without public consultation or council scrutiny. When the issue was debated at Monday’s council meeting, councillors and staff told about 80 people in the audience the city could do nothing to prevent demolition. No mention was made of the fact councillors could protect the properties under the Ontario Heritage Act — action described and supported by provincial heritage experts in a subsequent article written by Record reporter Terry Pender.

To justify the parking, Cadan hired consultants to prepare a heritage impact assessment and that document — recommending demolition of the buildings and preservation of a smokestack — was rubber-stamped by city officials.

The proposed demolition is astounding considering that, to date, councillors have done a commendable job pumping new life into both the core and the King-Victoria area. Revitalization efforts include the $52-million University of Waterloo school of pharmacy and the $40-million conversion of the Kaufman factory into loft condos. In addition, Cadan has made excellent efforts to conserve other tannery buildings on the Charles, Francis, Joseph and Victoria streets block.

The deal is bewildering because it ignores Kitchener’s official plan — a document that, following exhaustive public consultation, stipulates cultural heritage should be a priority while surface parking should be discouraged.

Cadan wants the lot to create 150 of 600-plus spaces for tenants. Spaces are in addition to parking at the city’s nearby works yard on Bramm Street and the parking garage at Charles and Benton.

At council, the issue came down to a division between those who insist developers should have parking and opponents convinced we need less parking wasteland in order to create a dynamic core that would attract more residents and visitors.

The pro-parking group argues that in our vehicular-centric community people working at places like the tannery want to drive to work and giving them the option is more important than dilapidated buildings. The anti-parking-lot group, spearheaded by Kitchener architect John MacDonald, insists Kitchener will never create pedestrian-cyclist areas and destination points like the tannery if they encourage parking lots that stand empty after workers go home at 5 p.m.

After listening to delegations, councillors agreed to do what they should have done months ago — instruct senior staff to meet with Cadan and residents to consider all options. To show the city really cares about its history, I hope Mayor Carl Zehr and councillors attend those sessions.

The city should work with Cadan to turn the buildings into places that would attract tourists to the area — uses including restaurants, pubs, boutiques, art studios and theatres. Combined with improved public transit on nearby King Street, the area could easily be linked to the adjacent Victoria Park heritage area and the Iron Horse Trail.

Councillors should also change a questionable system where developers hire consultants to prepare assessments that determine historic significance of buildings. And they should reverse an unacceptable process where non-elected, car-park-hugging staff make decisions on downtown developments with no involvement by councillors and residents.

Then, if all else fails, councillors should save the buildings by designating them under the Ontario Heritage Act.

Spokes

05-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Great editorial!!

wendy

05-20-2010, 11:14 PM

Hi,
I made a presentation and met a couple of "Wonderful Waterloo" members at the council meeting last Monday.
Yes, all the focus is now on designation to prevent demolition.
But, after hearing what the councillors were saying at the meeting, and seeing the whole process unfold, I'm wondering--which councillors are going to be voting for designation?
And even if they did, Cadan could oppose it, sending it to a review board. It's clear the last thing the city wants is a showdown with Cadan.
I think continued public support will show both parties what the public wants, and that is to save these buildings. For the sake of the urban landscape, and the idea of a "warehouse district" that is more than one warehouse and a parking garage.
To me, it doesn't matter what they want to demolish them for--whether it's surface parking, a six storey garage-retail structure, or the next Frank Gehry masterpiece. The bottom line(s) are that they have significant heritage value, they are perfectly suited for adaptive reuse, and it's part of the city's official plan to protect and re-use such properties.
The secondary issue is that there are plenty of parking alternatives. Which negates the justification for demolition in the Heritage Impact Assessment, ie, the immediate and crucial need to use that land for parking for tenants.
I'm not sure what kind of heritage architect writes a report that says to tear down buildings to make parking, but, I guess I'm just a crazy idealist who rides a bike and likes to see old buildings put to good use.
Wendy

Urbanomicon

05-20-2010, 11:20 PM

Welcome to the site Wendy!

Spokes

05-20-2010, 11:22 PM

Welcome to Wonderful Waterloo Wendy!

Im wondering....If they designated the buildings, is that a decision Cadan could take to the OMB? Because we all know how that would end.

panamaniac

05-20-2010, 11:27 PM

.......The bottom line(s) are that they have significant heritage value, they are perfectly suited for adaptive reuse, ........

I guess that's the issue that has not been very clear in the discussion to date - at present the buildings do not impress and far more important heritage structures are long gone (not that that is an argument re these particular structures). It also puzzles me that this has arisen so late in the Lang Tannery renovation process - when did the City first know that Cadan was planning to clear the site? Will heritage designation achieve anything if the developer is not committed to reusing the structures (abandoned structures have a way of becoming derelict in very short order)? I get the feeling that somebody dropped the ball on this one. :confused:

taylortbb

05-21-2010, 02:09 AM

Im wondering....If they designated the buildings, is that a decision Cadan could take to the OMB? Because we all know how that would end.

I dislike the OMB as much as anyone, but in this case they just might take our side. The OMB is always pro-developer, unless the official plan is very clear that it's prohibited. Fortuantely the official plan not just mentions preservation of heritage structures, but specifically mentions avoiding building surface parking in the district.

mpd618

05-21-2010, 02:10 AM

Im wondering....If they designated the buildings, is that a decision Cadan could take to the OMB? Because we all know how that would end.

They certainly could take it to the OMB, but I'm not sure they'd have a good case. Just a few days ago the OMB upheld Stratford keeping out a Wal-Mart because it went against their official plan. This demolition would go against the Kitchener official plan quite blatantly -- and I'm not sure Cadan would want to be known for taking this to the OMB.

wendy

05-21-2010, 08:13 AM

...at present the buildings do not impress...

It's not possible to appreciate these buildings just by driving by. They have to be viewed in relation to the other structures on the site, and it helps to have an understanding of what they were used for. It also helps to consider not just the buildings themselves, but the spaces between them, and the atmosphere that creates. Heritage isn't about "beautiful, old whatever" anymore. This is about something more real, in my opinion. I am new to the area, but I have heard and seen how the city has treated heritage resources in the past.There are bits and pieces of industrial factory gear placed around the downtown, ironically, one right in front of the Lang Site B buildings, with a plaque "celebrating industrial heritage, and the men and women who worked"
Expressing heritage should no be limited to perfunctory scraps and plaques. There's no need for it! It's nice, but little but gloss over far more important issues about honouring history in the everyday landscape, and the best way to do that is to re-use buildings that 1. have significant cultural value, 2. have not exhausted their use, 3. have a contribution to make to a well-planned urban landscape.
What made the City hesitate on demolition was public pressure. That has to continue! I would like to see people from the Universities get involved, and I would like to hear something from Heritage Kitchener, a group supposed to be protecting heritage interests that rubber-stamped the demolition plan. It has been shown, over and over, that public pressure, combined with the proper implemetation of heritage laws, is the most effective way to protect historic places, whether they're beautiful buildings or a former industrial landscape like the Lang site.

Oh, and by the way....this is a great forum!

Wendy

Spokes

05-21-2010, 08:20 AM

I guess that's the issue that has not been very clear in the discussion to date - at present the buildings do not impress and far more important heritage structures are long gone (not that that is an argument re these particular structures). It also puzzles me that this has arisen so late in the Lang Tannery renovation process - when did the City first know that Cadan was planning to clear the site? Will heritage designation achieve anything if the developer is not committed to reusing the structures (abandoned structures have a way of becoming derelict in very short order)? I get the feeling that somebody dropped the ball on this one. :confused:

Maybe one of the architects fighting for them should put together a proposal to show how they could be reused, Im sure it would help build more support and get Cadan thinking the same way.

Spokes

05-21-2010, 08:20 AM

I dislike the OMB as much as anyone, but in this case they just might take our side. The OMB is always pro-developer, unless the official plan is very clear that it's prohibited. Fortuantely the official plan not just mentions preservation of heritage structures, but specifically mentions avoiding building surface parking in the district.

Thanks for the thoughts, I hadn't thought of how the official plan would impact things. You too mpd618.

BusyBerliner

05-21-2010, 08:22 AM

Spokes

05-21-2010, 08:23 AM

Spokes

05-21-2010, 08:26 AM

Hey all, thought I'd chime in on this one..

If the City wants to designate the the buildings or a district and the owner objects, I believe it would actually go to the Conservation Review Board rather than the OMB (http://www.crb.gov.on.ca/english/home.html).

Also, does anyone know if they've considered how much parking could fit on the site without demolishing the builldings? Looking at the property, it seems that they could still fit a decent number of cars on the site without clearing it. This will allow them to address much of their short-term parking needs without squandering our/their heritage resources.

One other option (undesirable, but better than demolition), could be to gut the interior of the buildigs and use them as garages until a higher/better use than parking is feasible on the site. This way Candan gets their parking, doesn't have to pay for demolition, and the facades will be largely preserved.

They do have a fair amount of space, especially since they bought the land fronting on Victoria. But not enough, even with the buildings demolished and the ~100 spots they'll get, they still dont have enough.

As for using the buildings as garages, Im wary of that, just because of the potential stress all that weight and traffic could have on old buildings. If they're not going to fix them up right away (which they should) then ya, use every inch surrounding the buildings for parking.

wendy

05-21-2010, 08:34 AM

That's right, if Cadan objects to designation, it's not the OMB who reviews.

I would like to add that it is a big job to prepare plans for re-use, and isn't much good if done in isolation. That's the whole idea behind a public planning process. it's not a single person implementing their ideas and agenda.

I am not in favour of keeping facades to appease heritage interests. There has been a lot of talk from all sides about making the Tannery "a people place"

Not "a parking place".

panamaniac

05-21-2010, 09:18 AM

smably

05-21-2010, 09:50 AM

Regarding how these buildings could be reused, I'll re-post the photos I used in my presentation to council. These are the Wychwood streetcar barns in Toronto. They're a similar sort of industrial architecture, but in some ways the tannery site is even more promising because of the potential for the spaces between the buildings. But the Wychwood Barns stand out as a particularly good example of adaptive reuse of structures of this type.

Before:
http://www.cnu.org/sites/www.cnu.org/files/imagecache/news/Toronto_03.jpg (http://www.cnu.org/node/2685)

After:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/3035484181_00ca52742b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/artscape/3035484181/in/set-72157609236332395/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/3036328418_081509e60e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/artscape/3036328418/in/set-72157609236332395/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3650/3445517426_1ec5b88f63.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/artscape/3445517426/in/set-72157616817411132/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3663/3672751000_5857a59e22.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/artscape/3672751000/in/set-72157620590456429/)

Here (http://www.eyeweekly.com/features/article/45774) is the Eye Weekly article I quoted.

BusyBerliner

05-21-2010, 09:57 AM

There has been a lot of talk from all sides about making the Tannery "a people place"

Not "a parking place".

Agreed, 100%. I'm just suggesting that they should work around the buildings until somebody steps up to make that happen. I don't think parking on that site in the short term is a bad idea if it helps the Tannery attract tennants, but not at the cost of losing those buildings.. its a waste.

RangersFan

05-21-2010, 10:01 AM

Very cool pictures Smably. Another readaptive project in the region that I like is Southworks Outlet Mall in Cambridge, although the Tannery buildings are not as large.

WatDot

05-21-2010, 10:27 AM

Good job Smably. Great example!
Pushing creativity a little more here, I wonder if the Brick Brewery and/or Seagrams would be interested in being involved in a distillery type of project? I realize they are technically Waterloo companies, but would be an amazing tribute to the industrial/blue collar history and theme that this current "Warehouse District" portrays. Also using the Distillery in Toronto as an example, unique gift stores could also be included in this project. Imagine boutique stores selling vintage and/or current products (if possible) from the manufacturers that were or are based in the Region. An example would be Kaufman boots/shoes.

When it comes to Kitchener-Waterloo I am totally a Waterloo snob. Should Kitchener run with the Warehouse District 100% and redevelop these buildings into something "cool" I will start to change my attitude. Redevelop these buildings into a Distillery (Toronto) style development and I will become completely envious. :eek:

KLM

05-21-2010, 10:27 AM

If they save those buildings, Lang could become something like Distillery disctrict in Toronto.

Urbanomicon

05-21-2010, 12:35 PM

As for using the buildings as garages, Im wary of that, just because of the potential stress all that weight and traffic could have on old buildings. If they're not going to fix them up right away (which they should) then ya, use every inch surrounding the buildings for parking.

They would also have to install carbon monoxide detectors and exhaust fans (likely in the existing window openings) to keep the air breathable.

jay

05-25-2010, 09:56 PM

Tannery developer confident community will get on side

BY TERRY PENDER, RECORD STAFF
KITCHENER — After people see the extent of the restoration and renovations inside the former Lang Tannery, the developer says they will drop their opposition to the planned demolition of four old buildings nearby.

Lana Sherman, the managing director of Cadan Inc., is preparing for Thursday when she meets with community representatives who want the four buildings on Joseph Street saved and reused.

Sherman plans to show them the work inside the main tannery building that has attracted tenants such as the digital media centre, Desire2Learn, Balzac’s Coffee, a pizzeria and a medical health clinic.

“I think people don’t appreciate the extent of the work we have done here,” Sherman said during a tour of the Tannery building that is quickly being transformed into a 21st century workplace.

“This place won’t be recognizable in two months,” Sherman said.

By the time the Tannery is completely redeveloped, about 1,000 people will be working there. The City of Kitchener will lease to Cadan some nearby parking spots and Cadan has lined up others spaces from private owners in the area.

But it’s not enough.

Sherman said Cadan has done a lot to reduce the need for parking.

The company built secure, indoor bicycle storage and there are showers on every floor. Grand River Transit will provide corporate passes at a discount and locate a couple of bus stops next to the building. Cadan and Grand River Transit have also talked about shuttle buses that could carry people from parking lots around the downtown to the Tannery.

But Cadan’s need for 200 additional parking spaces has put the four old buildings on Joseph Street in the spotlight.

The developer wants to demolish the buildings and salvage as much material as possible to be used in the restoration of the main building.

It plans for a gravel parking lot on that area, known as Site B, as a temporary use. Next year, Cadan will begin planning for a multistorey, mixed-use building — retail and services on the main floor with live-work spaces and residential units above, Sherman said.

“I think once the community sees what we are doing here they will understand what we are doing on Site B and support our development and vision for that site,” Sherman said.

“I assumed everyone would know, because it is gravel, it is temporary,” Sherman said of the parking lot. “Somehow, that message didn’t get out about what we are doing on Site B.”

After about 75 people packed a city council meeting last week to protest against the planned demolition, Mayor Carl Zehr called for a meeting among the developer, senior bureaucrats and some community representatives.

The buildings, 14 Linden Ave. and 189 to 204 Joseph St., were part of the Lang Tanning Company — the city’s first major industry.

The buildings include a Hide House, where animal skins were stored. There is a former Boiler House, with a chimney that reaches 180 feet in height, where steam was produced to power machinery. There is a Bonded Warehouse used for the storage of tree bark used in tanning hides, and a Water Softener building.

When Cadan first went public with the plans for Site B in February, the company said the long-term plan was for a five-storey parking garage.

But now, Sherman said the long-term plans are for a mixed-use building on the site.

“We don’t want to create a parking lot,” Sherman said. “It is the last thing we want to do.”

When Cadan begins planning in earnest for the new building on Joseph Street, there will be public meetings.

“There will be lots of opportunity for people to have input into this,” Sherman said. “We are not trying to ram anything down people’s throats.”

The brick buildings are considered significant because of their association with an industrious immigrant who left his home in Baden, Germany, to create one of the largest and most influential businesses in this city’s history.

Reinhold Lang founded the Lang Tanning Company in 1849. Leather tanning became the first major industry to develop in what was then known as Berlin. By 1859, Lang was elected to city council where he helped establish a policy that provided exemptions and bonuses for new and growing businesses.

By 1900, these policies helped establish many factories turning out furniture, buttons, bricks and foundries. In what was known as Busy Berlin, few concerns were as busy as the Lang Tanning Company.

It became one of the biggest tanning operations in the British Empire, supplying sole leather and saddles during the First World War and sole leather and linings for aircraft fuel tanks during the Second World War. It closed in 1954.

The City of Kitchener acknowledged the historic importance of the Lang buildings when the structures were listed on the city’s Inventory of Heritage Buildings, making them prime candidates for designation and protection under the Ontario Heritage Act.

That designation did not happen before the Heritage Act was changed in 2005. Part of the changes called for scrapping the old Inventory of Heritage Buildings and replacing it with what’s called a Register of Non-Designated Buildings.

City bureaucrats and their citizen’s advisory committee, called Heritage Kitchener, have been so slow in getting historic buildings listed on the Heritage Register that hundreds of potentially significant properties have been left with no protection — including the Lang Tannery.

panamaniac

05-25-2010, 10:06 PM

A future parking garage and now a mixed use development? Somebody needs to work harder on their spin. Could a decent mixed used development be more appealing than saving the heritage structures? -- show us some plans so there can be an informed discussion.

smably

05-25-2010, 10:23 PM

Nearly everyone agrees that they are doing a stellar job with Site A. Kudos to the developer for their work there, but this is not about Site A. I don't think anyone is saying that Cadan should stop work on Site A because of a supposed parking issue. What we are saying is that they need to find a way to accommodate their parking needs (which may mean re-evaluating their parking needs) without demolishing heritage buildings. It's pretty simple.

And yeah, if they are really planning a mixed-use development on that lot, let's see the plans before they knock down the buildings that are there. Once they have the money for the new development and it's approved by the city, then we can start talking about tearing down the buildings. It's easy to say "oh, we will eventually build something on that lot" -- and then there's a recession, or the developer loses interest, or whatever else happens, and we're stuck with a parking lot for decades.

Another question: why is this the first I've heard of Thursday's meeting? Who are these community representatives who are meeting with the developer and the city? TriTAG has sent an open letter to the developer, local politicians, and business leaders, and our members have spoken before council on this issue. We weren't invited (and Cadan never responded to our letter). How were the representatives chosen? Am I really being represented?

Greg Moore

05-25-2010, 11:02 PM

This kind of looks like a case of a developer saying the're going to do something they are not going to do.

I think their fingers were crossed while promising.

Spokes

05-25-2010, 11:23 PM

Tannery developer confident community will get on side

[I]BY TERRY PENDER, RECORD STAFF
KITCHENER — After people see the extent of the restoration and renovations inside the former Lang Tannery, the developer says they will drop their opposition to the planned demolition of four old buildings nearby.

Ummm...Don't count on it.

It plans for a gravel parking lot on that area, known as Site B, as a temporary use. Next year, Cadan will begin planning for a multistorey, mixed-use building — retail and services on the main floor with live-work spaces and residential units above, Sherman said.

...

When Cadan first went public with the plans for Site B in February, the company said the long-term plan was for a five-storey parking garage.

But now, Sherman said the long-term plans are for a mixed-use building on the site.

“We don’t want to create a parking lot,” Sherman said. “It is the last thing we want to do.”

Ok, this is significantly better than the proposal for the parking garage, but it still does it at the expense of the buildings. And with the buildings already gone, what's stopping them from going back to their original parking garage plan? If a site plan proposal was made that they could be held to, then it'd be something to talk about, but still not ideal.

Not to mention, how does this solve the problem they have for needed parking?

Spokes

05-25-2010, 11:24 PM

Another question: why is this the first I've heard of Thursday's meeting? Who are these community representatives who are meeting with the developer and the city? TriTAG has sent an open letter to the developer, local politicians, and business leaders, and our members have spoken before council on this issue. We weren't invited (and Cadan never responded to our letter). How were the representatives chosen? Am I really being represented?

My thoughts too.

mpd618

05-25-2010, 11:35 PM

And yeah, if they are really planning a mixed-use development on that lot, let's see the plans before they knock down the buildings that are there. Once they have the money for the new development and it's approved by the city, then we can start talking about tearing down the buildings. It's easy to say "oh, we will eventually build something on that lot" -- and then there's a recession, or the developer loses interest, or whatever else happens, and we're stuck with a parking lot for decades.

The amount of parking "needed" is based on pessimism, but we're supposed to be guided by optimism about some future mixed-use building? [expletive deleted]

UrbanWaterloo

05-26-2010, 02:46 AM

Planning and Works Committee - May 18, 2010 Minutes
http://www.region.waterloo.on.ca/web/region.nsf/8ef02c0fded0c82a85256e590071a3ce/55cb1a735b4698cf8525772a005cef29!OpenDocument

OTHER BUSINESS
J. Mitchell asked whether any funding would be obtained for transit instead of a parking garage with respect to the development of the Lang Tannery, as suggested by a recent delegation. K. Seiling noted that the suggestion had not yielded any actionable funding, and that the future of the buildings in question would be determined by the City of Kitchener.

UrbanWaterloo

05-26-2010, 07:01 AM

Proposed Demolition of Tannery Buildings - Gauging Neighbourhood Opinion
2010-05-21 | http://victoriaparkna.com/

Some of you may be aware of the controversy surrounding the proposed demolition of the five ancillary buildings between Joseph, Victoria, Oak and Linden streets that are part of the original Lang's Tannery complex. The space is to be used for a surface parking lot, with plans to eventually replace it by a parking garage for Tannery office users.

Those who take issue with the demolition are advocating that the buildings should be saved not only because of their historic value, but because if those buildings were then revitalized, the Tannery District will be a true "district", becoming a pedestrian destination.

The Victoria Park Neighbourhood Association has been asked to weigh in on the subject. I would like to make sure that I speak for the neighbourhood before I say anything. What is your opinion of the proposed demolition? Are you fully against the demolition of the ancillary buildings, or do you think that there would be benefits to the development and the neighbourhood that outweigh the downsides?

There is an interesting blog post here giving some history, pictures of the buildings, and comparisons between the Tannery development and the Distillery District in Toronto. There is also an article in the Record here that details the need for more parking for the current development.

Your opinions are greatly appreciated! Please send comments to info@victoriaparkna.com.

KLM

05-26-2010, 03:34 PM

Urbanomicon

05-26-2010, 04:02 PM

And it might sound like a drastic measure ,but I would enforce for downtown Kitchener no vehicles allowed expect GRT and services only.

Make it pedestrian zone, so whoever works downtown should take bus ,bicycle or walk.

Are you referring to just King Street or to all of downtown? There are a number of parking garages, including the one currently under construction at Charles and Benton that would be completely useless if this was done. Additionally, what about people that are either visiting or work downtown that live outside the region or not on a transit route? Manulife has its own parking garage built into their two-block building.

There would be an abundance of trucks going through downtown to stock up the various shops and office towers there. Would you really want roads that are only busses and transport trucks?

How would people purchase items that are too big to bring home on a bus? Force them to pay for delivery (if offered)?

What about people that live downtown? Are they not allowed to drive or own a car?

Also, Kitchener's night life would be destroyed since all buses stop at midnight leaving downtown a ghost town.

This approach may work on sections of King Street, but not on the whole downtown.

Spokes

05-26-2010, 10:03 PM

I would propose next:

leave buidlings where they are ( renovate if possible) ,dont make any parking lots.

And it might sound like a drastic measure ,but I would enforce for downtown Kitchener no vehicles allowed expect GRT and services only.

Make it pedestrian zone, so whoever works downtown should take bus ,bicycle or walk.

No need for extra parking spaces.I beleive thats city intention, one day.

That'd be the death of downtown right there. You'd have to have parking lots on the periphery for all the people that work there. You'd be limiting downtown to only those taking transit or living close by, doing that would be a terrible thing in my opinion

There's a lot of other problems with it, most of which Urbanomicon touched on.

mpd618

05-26-2010, 11:16 PM

There's a lot of middle ground between demolishing every other building for parking lots and totally banning private autos from downtown, and I think the latter extreme is neither achievable nor desirable in the short- or medium-term. Considering the way people currently get around, it's also not an idea with which people are apt to sympathize.

KLM

05-27-2010, 12:05 AM

ok,I said drastic measure not mandatory.

lets limit pedestrian zone on King St only from Benton/Frederick to Victoria St.

lets see whats current situation with downtown Kitchener, employment wise.

We have office people who work from 8 to 5, they park somewhere ,designated spots.

What do you have after 5 pm? Empty parking spots.People drive off to their homes( remember 99 percent of those cars are single occupancy) somewhere else- suburbs.Unfortunate as it is.

Waterloo Square for example.We had parking spots there ,they are gone now and we have a square now.Any complaints? Probably there is some.

Downtown must become competitive with big box stores.Must spark interest ,attract people to come downtown.

Some cities have pedestrian zones only and seems work fine.

Why not make it weekends only? Especially in summer time. Let people walk and let them know each other.Its not in our blood,thats why.

Spokes

05-27-2010, 07:11 AM

Downtown will never become competitive with big box stores if you limit traffic anywhere. People drive from a ways away to go to big box stores, we want downtown to be the same. Yes King should not be the primary thru traffic avenue, but it shouldnt be closed completely.

Some cities do have pedestrian only zones and they do work fine, in existing, strong cores, we do not have that, and in our region it would do a significant amount of damage.

As for weekends only, I dont like the idea, I think it could be a bit confusing for some people, especially if they come downtown irregularly.

It's awesome that you're thinking outside the box like this, but I don't think it's a good idea at all, particularly in this region.

panamaniac

05-27-2010, 08:55 AM

King St has been pedestrianized before, when there were reasons to actually be Downtown. I am not sure it would serve much purpose nowadays, although Charles and Duke are already designed to take the flow of Downtown traffic. For me, I woulld like to see consideration of turning Halls Lane into a pedestrian zone - the idea of pubs and boutiques lining what is now a gritty alley has always fascinated me.

Spokes

05-27-2010, 09:41 AM

Hmm thats an interesting idea I'd never thought of. It'd take a TON of work to fix up all the backs of buildings (on both sides) to make it attractive. Might be more work than it's worth.

KLM

05-27-2010, 10:17 AM

Hmm thats an interesting idea I'd never thought of. It'd take a TON of work to fix up all the backs of buildings (on both sides) to make it attractive. Might be more work than it's worth.

I think its great idea,Halls Lane is really in bad condition ,and `highlight` is U-Haul at the very end ,looks ugly.

Spokes

05-27-2010, 06:48 PM

My biggest concern is just how narrow it is, and how much work it'd take. Some new developments wouldn't provide for a very friendly facade (ie TD Tower)

smably

05-27-2010, 06:54 PM

Apparently today's meeting was a bust, and the developer is still planning to tear down the buildings. Disappointing, but not a big surprise.
http://news.therecord.com/article/718544

jay

05-27-2010, 10:11 PM

I'm not surprised by this, also I doubt they will build the parking garage anytime soon. It's just talk.

Attempt to resolve future of historic buildings fails
May 27, 2010 | BY TERRY PENDER, RECORD STAFF
http://news.therecord.com/article/718544

KITCHENER — A Thursday meeting brokered by Mayor Carl Zehr in an attempt to find a compromise solution over the planned demolition of four historic buildings on Joseph Street has ended with no change in plans.

The developer, Toronto-based Cadan Inc., says it will pursue the demolition of the buildings as soon as possible at 189-204 Joseph St. and 14 Linden Ave., to make room for a gravel parking lot.

“We have a huge amount of pressure to come up with parking because tenants will be moving in within two months,” Lana Sherman, the managing director of Cadan, said after the meeting.

About 16 people, including senior city bureaucrats and heritage advocates, attended the meeting at the Tannery offices on Charles Street and toured the sprawling complex that is undergoing a complete renovation and restoration.

Zehr called for the meeting after about 75 people packed the council chambers to protest the planned demolition of the old buildings on Joseph Street, just across from the main Tannery building.

“I think the belief the buildings should be saved and reused is not as widespread as some people and bloggers like to believe,” Sherman said.

She said the meeting was positive even though nobody changed their positions.

“Clearly different people had different opinions, but I am glad we had the meeting,” Sherman said.

She was supported by Rod Regier, the city’s director of economic development, who said: “It was a good meeting. It was important to dialogue, to swap notes on the development of the block.”

Wendy Rofihe, one of three heritage advocates invited, said the gathering was a complete waste of time and she will start collecting signatures on a petition to pressure city council into saving the buildings. She hopes to table that petition at a city council meeting on June 7 when the issue is back on the agenda.

“There really is nothing that came out of this today, it was spinning wheels,” Rofihe said.

Also at the meeting was Rick Haldenby, the director of the University of Waterloo school of architecture. He left before the end of the meeting, but said in an interview he has made his views known to city officials.

“I am concerned the amount of surface parking in that area of the downtown is becoming excessive,” Haldenby said.

The urban landscape in the west end of the downtown is dominated by surface-parking lots, which are empty after 6 p.m. and often not completely full during work hours.

As for the old buildings slated for demolition — a Boiler House, Hide House, Bonded Warehouse and a Water Softener Building — Haldenby would like to see plans to include them in the redevelopment of the Tannery.

“I am not convinced they are without value,” he said. “I am not convinced they could not be incorporated into the redevelopment with a focus on a lively and vibrant Joseph Street.”

Cadan says the gravel parking lot will be temporary. In about 12 months it will begin planning for a multistorey, mixed-use building on the site. This is a big change from when the planned demolition was first made public in February. Back then, the developer said the long-term plan was for a five-storey parking garage.

The old brick buildings are considered significant by heritage advocates because of their association with Reinhold Lang’s family business.

He founded the Lang Tanning Company in 1849. It was the first major industry to develop in what was then Berlin. After his election to the town council in 1859 Lang helped put in place policies to help factories get established. The roots of the city’s manufacturing economy can be traced back to him.

The Lang Tanning Company became one of the biggest tanneries in the British Empire, supplying boot soles and saddles during the Second World War and leather-linings for aircraft fuel tanks during the Second World War. It closed in 1954.