U/C 144 Park | 67 m | 19 fl | 80% Sold [Archive]

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UrbanWaterloo

12-25-2009, 11:28 PM

144 Park
Uptown Waterloo
Website: www.144park.ca
Developer: Mady Development Corporation (www.madycorp.com)
Percentage Sold: 30% (Fall 2009) | 50% (March 2010) | 60% (April 2010) | 70% (July 2010) | 80% (October 2010)
Site Plan: August 14, 2008 (http://www.city.waterloo.on.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/DS_DEVAPPROV_documents/Z08-05Allen.pdf)

Expanded 2-Tower Proposal
760

Original 1-Tower Proposal
761 (http://www.madycorp.com/144park.html)

UrbanWaterloo

12-25-2009, 11:30 PM

Renderings:
http://www.144park.ca/rendering_entrance.jpg
http://www.144park.ca/rendering_entrance.jpg

September 9, 2008:
I was at Waterloo Council last night and was able to snap some pics of the developer's presentation. They showed three renderings (the images below are zoomed in and cropped photos of their powerpoint). I think the building looks great and I really hope this thing gets approved. I especially like the townhouses.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn246/busyberliner/3.jpg?t=1220998253
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn246/busyberliner/2.jpg?t=1220998286
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn246/busyberliner/1.jpg?t=1220998217

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWkGrlY_P2Y

Amenity Map: http://144park.ca/144-amenity-map.pdf
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-AmenityMap.jpg

This is a collection of price lists for 144 Park.

May 21, 2009
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-PriceList-May212009.jpg

September 27, 2009 (Picked-up: No Formal Date on Sheet)
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-PriceList-September272009.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

12-25-2009, 11:39 PM

Aging industrial site could be demolished
August 26, 2008
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO
http://news.therecord.com/article/404898

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/f6/ab/e7e65f7b47708a3cd45060364153.jpeg

The owner of a downtown factory dating back to the First World War wants to tear it down and build a 19-storey condominium building.

A development proposal to rezone 21 Allen St. W. from industrial to multi-residential is before city planners.

The three-storey building is now home to Ontario Table and Chair Co.

It's owned by Randy Kinat, who did not return phone calls from The Record yesterday.

Dale Wideman, chair of the city's heritage committee, said he's concerned about the proposal to tear down the red brick building, which was erected in 1913.

"This building was located in the industrial heart of Waterloo,'' said Wideman, who was notified of the development proposal during a meeting at city hall about a month ago.

The old factory, not far from the Bauer lofts development, is not designated as a heritage property, nor is it recognized for its heritage or cultural value.

The factory was the original home of the Quality Mattress Co. The name was changed to Waterloo Bedding Co.in 1921.

The building is considered a mill construction with sturdy beams and posts, said Marg Rowell, city heritage committee member.

Rowell said the lack of designation does not mean the building isn't of significant value.

"There is nothing I can do especially with the attitude of council right now,'' Wideman said. "It's a foregone conclusion that it (the building) will be removed.''

Wideman said he was disappointed at last week's council meeting when politicians voted to defer a proposal to establish a list of heritage buildings. The committee had recommended 35 buildings be recognized for their heritage value and their historical significance.

The 35 properties were built before 1857, the year Waterloo was incorporated as a village.

Some owners told councillors they were worried a heritage registry could decrease the property values of their buildings. Council then shelved the plan which is expected to return to a council committee meeting on Oct. 6.

Scott Amos, director of development approvals for the City of Waterloo, said the rezoning application for the Allen Street West building will go through a complete development process, the same as any other proposal.

An informal public meeting will be held at a council committee meeting on Sept. 8.

The proposal also includes three houses on Park Street adjacent to the Allen Street building which could also be demolished.

Amos said the owner is also considering a heritage assessment of the property although the city does not require it.

Amos said the owner's proposal follows city policies and fits in with the city's plan to intensify its core area.

"If this was a heritage property, we would be having a different discussion,'' he said. "It's a neat-looking building . . . but every property-owner has existing legal rights to his/her property."

Kinat started his furniture business in 1985 and about 12 years ago moved the business into the Allen Street West building, which was empty.

Loss of factory building would be a sad thing
August 30, 2008
Christopher Borth
http://news.therecord.com/article/407277

Re: Aging Industrial Site Could Be Demolished -- Aug. 26

I am very disappointed to hear that the attractive early 20th century factory building at 21 Allen St. W. will likely be demolished. While the building may not qualify as a heritage property in its own right, it contributes significantly to the appearance and character of what could certainly be called a "heritage neighbourhood." There is no question that tearing it down and building another condominium tower would be a sad and ugly change for this part of Waterloo.

In the mid-20th century, the City of Kitchener allowed many of its most historic and attractive downtown buildings to be torn down.

An obvious example would be the lovely neoclassical-styled city hall, of which only the clock tower survives, standing as a sad and lonely reminder at the Joseph Street entrance to Victoria Park.

At the time, these buildings were felt not to be deserving of protection. Kitchener's downtown has never really recovered from this careless attitude toward its architectural heritage.

However modest the architectural merits of such buildings may be on an individual basis, they are an essential part of our neighbourhoods. Our neighbourhoods are slowly demeaned and eventually lost as these buildings disappear.

Intensification of Waterloo's downtown core is a reasonable goal. But please, city councillors, let condominium towers be built in place of parking lots or on underused land, and not at the cost of our most attractive historic buildings.

Christopher Borth
Waterloo

Informal Public Meeting
Sept 8, 2008 - Page 34
http://www.city.waterloo.on.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/CS_CLERKS_Minutes_2008/20080908_Packet_Committee_of_the_Whole.pdf

Neighbours alarmed by proposed development at historic site
By Greg MacDonald, News
Sep 03, 2008
http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/news/article/141620

A proposed 19-storey development on Allan Street in uptown Waterloo has raised alarm in the neighbouring communities.

An application submitted to the city to develop a condominium tower on the site of the current Ontario Table and Chair building has made residents question whether or not the city should allow a high-density building on a street that is not a major corridor, said Becky Shaw, who lives on Park Street near the proposed site.

Shaw, who moved into her home in April, isn't sure if a 19-storey structure will fit in with the neighbourhood.

"You have an idea of what the neighbourhood is going to be like when you move in, but all of a sudden (a few months) later we're at a meeting telling us (a developer) wants to build what looks like a little Empire State Building just down the street," she said.

She is not against the development of condos nearby, but believes that a structure that will loom over the recently built Bauer lofts will be a little extreme.

Shaw and her neighbours are concerned about the traffic and shadow impacts that the 145-unit tower could have on their quiet neighbourhood just outside of the uptown core.

They're also concerned about losing heritage buildings, according to Shaw. Besides the Ontario Table and Chair building, which was built during the First World War, Shaw figures that three homes slated for demolition if the proposal goes through were built around 1913.

"The neighbourhood is not against development ... we understand the idea of urban sprawl. We're not against the intensification of the downtown core," she said.

"But we need to have development that's not at the expense of heritage and at the expense of our bylaws."

The current official plan for Waterloo deems the uptown core as a place to intensify, but the land that the condo could be built on is zoned industrial.

The city is low on industrial lands and has a policy that it won't rezone any industrial lands.

But they're also looking to intensify the core.

That means the developers would have to go through an official plan amendment, said Trevor Hawkins, development planner for the city.

Aside from re-zoning the land, the developer is also looking to increase density on the land from 250 units per hectare to 465. It's the first application to request that type of density, Hawkins said.

The city will be receiving many more applications like that as intensification happens, said uptown ward Coun. Ian McLean.

"Whether we want to or not, we've got no choice -- we're not growing out, we're growing up," he said.

That doesn't mean, however, that council will agree with the developer's request.

"I'm not taking a position yet," he said. "I'm going to look at the facts.

"We need to weigh the options and achieve a balance where the needs of everyone are met."

That could mean approving the building, allowing the development but reducing the number of storeys or denying it outright, McLean added.

Regardless of what happens with this development, the councillor believes that intensification is coming.

"Waterloo is trying to be the most environmentally progressive community ... intensification goes a long way towards that," he said.

The informal public meeting for the development will take place on Sept. 8 in council chambers.

After that, the proposal will go back to staff and be brought back to council at a later date.

UrbanWaterloo

12-25-2009, 11:50 PM

Residents say 19-storey condominium too big for downtown neighbourhood
September 09, 2008
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO
http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/411799

Resident after resident asked councillors last night to take another look at a proposed 19-storey condominium development set for Park and Allen streets in the city core.

The likelihood of more traffic and noise, less sunshine and the loss of heritage are among the concerns raised about the proposed condo tower.

"We are not against development," said Marcia Macks Edwards, who lives in the Catalina townhouse development off Allen Street. "We expect development. We have chosen to live here because we recognize the value of infilling and intensification."

She urged councillors not to box in the Catalina townhouses.

At a committee meeting last night, councillors got more details about the development, which will feature a 145-unit condo tower and nine three-storey townhouses.

The developer, Allen Street Holdings, wants to tear down the 95-year-old building at 21 Allen St. W. known as the Ontario Table and Chair Co. Three adjacent houses at 142, 144 and 148 Park St. would also be demolished.

The factory, built in 1913, was the original home of the Quality Mattress Co. The name was changed to Waterloo Bedding Co. in 1921. The building is not designated as a heritage property or recognized for its cultural value, but heritage advocates say this doesn't mean it shouldn't be saved.

The developer is requesting a zone change for the property, which is about a third of a hectare, Trevor Hawkins, the city development planner, told council. The property is zoned as industrial and the developer wants to change it to multi-residential. Although the city's official plan wants industrial lands unchanged, this property is in the core, where the city wants residential intensification.

The developer is also asking for approval from the city to increase density on the property to 465 units per hectare from 250 units per hectare. The development would also include a three-storey parking garage.

Rebecca Shaw, who lives at 141 Allen St., said a 19-storey building is excessive. She worries about how the increased density and traffic will affect the area.

Residents are also concerned that pedestrians will have to fear for their safety when more cars come in.

Bill Kauffeldt, who lives in the Catalina townhouses, said another highrise will create a ghetto of tall buildings. Nearby tower buildings include Clarica and the Bauer lofts.

The development likely will not come before council until at least December, Hawkins said.

Carol Wiebe, a planning consultant representing developer Randy Kinat, said her client is committed to listening to the neighbourhood's concerns.

"We will try and come back with solutions addressing these concerns. It's finding a balance."

John Arndt, president of North Waterloo Region Branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, said the Ontario Table and Chair building is historic and structurally sound and, ultimately, precious. The building is reminiscent of the "glory days" of industry in downtown Waterloo nearly 100 years ago, Arndt told council.

He said the owner should be complimented for restoring the building and conducting a heritage study even though this wasn't required. "But the question is, are the costs too great to save this significant building?"

Neighbours blast new condo plan
By Greg MacDonald - News
Sep 10, 2008
http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/news/article/142456

A plan to erect a 19-storey condominium building at the corner of Allen and Park streets drew more fire Monday, with neighbours blasting the development as it was presented to city council.

Concerns ranged from traffic impacts to shadows to the safety of children as residents pleaded with the city to do something about the proposed development on the current site of the Ontario Table and Chair building.

Developers are asking the city to rezone the site to allow for a 157-unit condominium complex that will require twice the density than the site is currently allocated.

But neighbours are worried that this complex, coupled with the nearby Bauer lofts, will destroy their quiet community. The size of the structure is among the chief concerns.

"We're not against development, but development has to be reasonable," said Becky Shaw, who lives on Park Street across from the site.

Shaw and 10 other concerned citizens voiced their complaints about the development, which will also feature townhouses along its frontage.

And though residents living in the uptown are aware of the need for intensification, this is taking it too far, said Marcia Macks Edwards, who lives in the Catalina townhouse development just off Allen Street.

"We expect development, we expect mixed use but we also expect respect," she said.

When the Catalina townhouses were approved by the previous council, they were envisioned as the new benchmark for environmentally friendly living in the uptown, Edwards said.

Now they're going to get boxed in by high-rises.

"We want you to respect your vision of uptown Waterloo and the official plan," she said.

John Arndt, president of the North Waterloo Region branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, is also concerned about intensification.

He's afraid that the "Manhattanization" of the core could lead to a loss of the city's built history -- something that's already ongoing with the potential loss of the Ontario Table and Chair building, which was built in 1913. The structure is typical of industrial facilities built before the First World War and is one of Waterloo's last linkages to that era.

"Only a few buildings still stand that still represent the Golden Age of industry in the city," Arndt said.

All of these concerns are going to become more common as developers start to intensify, said Carol Wiebe, a consultant with MHBC planning.

Wiebe, who presented council with some of the plans for the development, said she heard the community's concerns and will take them into account. But it's not only developers who will have to deal with these worries, she said.

"I think that in the next 10 years we're going to see some tremendous change " she said. "Council, staff, developers and the neighbourhoods are going to have to deal with issues as the (intensification) policies are implemented."

A record high condo price for Waterloo Region: over $1,000,000!
Waterloo Region Record: Saturday September 13, 2008 - H7
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144ParkUptownWaterloo-AdinTheRecord.jpg

December 13, 2008: Some renders you might enjoy, based on the illustrations provided earlier in this thread...
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo248/Rusty__Shack/cornerduskloq.jpg
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo248/Rusty__Shack/sidedusklo.jpg
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo248/Rusty__Shack/townhouse.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

12-26-2009, 01:12 AM

Waterloo isn’t in good position to balance growth pressures with heritage, says critic
By Greg MacDonald, Chronicle Staff - News
Jan 21, 2009
http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/news/article/159985

One of the biggest challenges facing municipalities over the next few decades will be balancing intensification and heritage.
But the City of Waterloo isn’t as prepared as its neighbours to deal with the upcoming challenges, according to the former chair of the municipal heritage committee.

Dale Wideman, who was a member of the committee for 12 years, outlined his concerns about the fate of heritage structures in the city at a meeting of the North Waterloo Branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario last week.

Wideman, along with city planners and university professors, spoke about the need to balance intensification efforts with the area’s historical markers.

Both the City of Cambridge and the City of Kitchener have heritage planners on staff, but Waterloo has no such position.

That leaves Waterloo’s history at a disadvantage compared to other development concerns, Wideman said.

“Without a heritage planner to have a good grasp of the issues ... I don’t know how the city will fare,” he said.

Wideman considered his relationship with city development staff “adversarial at times” and said that heritage matters weren’t always taken seriously.

“Heritage matters were a very last-minute concern,” Wideman said. “It can’t be on the shoulders of the municipal heritage committee alone.”

That doesn’t mean that the city hasn’t had its successes in preserving its heritage. Wideman points to the Seagram Lofts as a perfect example of intensification and heritage in harmony.

But just down the road is an example of heritage being destroyed, he added.

The Ontario Table and Chair building, one of the last vestiges of Waterloo’s early 20th-century manufacturing heritage, is set to be replaced by a large-scale condominium.

Heritage buildings such as that one can be protected if the city identified significant historical areas in the city.

“Municipalities should be (responsible) to identify which structures should be considered for retention,” Wideman said.

That would primarily be the responsibility of a heritage planner, he added.

Heritage planners from Kitchener and Cambridge also presented at the meeting and laid out their plans to preserve history in their respective cities.

And even though those municipalities have heritage planners, it doesn’t mean that heritage is safe, said Valerie Spring, the planner with the City of Cambridge.

Provincial legislation such as the Places to Grow Act can seriously handcuff any efforts by heritage planners by promoting intensification over preservation, she said.

“I’m worried that Places to Grow encourages insidious, incremental degradation of our neighborhoods,” she said. “It will be the responsibility of planners to make sure that doesn’t happen.”

Like Wideman, Spring points to identification of heritage structures as the first key to preservation.

But it’s also up to city planners to be aware of heritage concerns when working on development applications.

“Right now it seems like a lot of planning is checking boxes,” Spring said. “But when one of these issues (about new development) comes up, a group of people always comes to tell us what makes a neighbourhood special.

“I think as planners we need to listen to them.”

CONDO PRICING - Deals aplenty if the big city is forsaken
Buyers in Guelph, Collingwood, Schomberg can get 40% break over Toronto prices
TERRENCE BELFORD, Globe and Mail
May 15, 2009 at 12:00 AM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090515.reBelford0515/REStory/RealEstate/home

New York newspaper editor Horace Greeley had some oft-quoted words of advice for anyone seeking a new beginning in the 19th-century United States: "Go West, young man, go West."

You can apply that basic principle to GTA empty nesters looking for relief from stiff new condo prices and the hurly-burly of big-city life. Unless they can easily afford anywhere from $500 to $1,100 a square foot for that new two-bedroom suite and are passionate about staying in the GTA, they might well look west and north to smaller cities and towns such as Waterloo, Schomberg and Collingwoood.

All are within an hour's drive — plus or minus — from the pleasures and diversions of Toronto, but offer what for many is an appealing combination of lower condo costs and a more relaxed approach to life.

"The savings can be significant. We are looking at prices 30 per cent to 40 per cent less than in Toronto — square foot costs as low as $285 instead of $500," says Debbie Cosic of In2ition Realty Inc. She has projects on the go in Collingwood and Schomberg.

The Schomberg one offers a deal unlike anything else on the market: A condo on the banks of the Schomberg River plus a villa suite in Wildwood, Fla., about an hour north of St. Petersburg, starting at $350,000 for the pair.

The projects are called Triumph North and Triumph South and are being built by SigNature Developments Inc. of Concord. You can buy suites in either individually or opt to buy both for the price of a single suite in Toronto.

Granted that $350,000 price only gets you a 650-square-foot, one-bedroom unit in Schomberg and an 800-square-foot, one-bedroom winter home in Florida, but there are singles and couples who do not need anything larger.

Buy a Triumph North one-bedroom alone and it will cost about $180,000, compared with anywhere from $250,000 to $330,000 in the GTA, depending on neighbourhood.

If you want more space, it will, of course, cost you more money. Triumph North has suites ranging up to 1,400 square feet with two bedrooms and a den, and Triumph South offers homes that go up in size to 1,200-square-foot, three-bedroom bungalows.

As for lifestyle, Schomberg is not Yorkville. It is an old Ontario farming village. No bright lights, no vibrating nightspots. But Newmarket is about 15 minutes away by car, as is Vaughan. And for winter months, you can be in Florida in about three hours by jet with regular flights into Orlando, Tampa and St. Petersburg.

There is another out-of-town project aimed at empty nesters worth mentioning. Mady Development Corp., which has built such high-end communities as the Boat Club and Les Falls on Marco Island in Florida, Hackberry Creek Estates in Irving, Tex., and the Waterfront Shores lakeside community in Windsor, says it is about to give Waterloo its first luxury condo.

"Waterloo has mainly seen loft-style renovations. We saw terrific pent-up demand for a real luxury project," says Charles "Chuck" Mady, president of the Mady Group.

His project is called 144 Park — Uptown Waterloo. The name comes from the street address. The site is in a well-established neighbourhood that includes a mix of shops, boutiques, cafés and nightspots and is about a 10-minute walk from the centre of town.

One of the biggest lures for GTA buyers will be price. With 690-square-foot, one-bedroom suites starting in the mid-$200,000 range, GTA buyers would get a luxury suite in downtown Waterloo at the same price as a mid-market one in Toronto. Somewhat larger too: 144 Park's one-bedroom units are about the size of suites with one bedroom and a den in the city.

Each has a large balcony, not just a smoker's nook. They range in size from 65 square feet to more than 200. Prices include an underground parking spot and a storage locker.

For those wanting bigger spaces, suites run up to 2,700-square-foot, three-bedroom penthouses. Three-bedroom condos are in very tight supply in the GTA. There will also be a string of nine, 1,800-square-foot, three-storey, Manhattan brownstone-style townhouses on the site — each with a private elevator.

All suites come with the bells and whistles upscale buyers expect including optional gas-fired ovens and range tops, optional gas fireplaces and the seemingly compulsory granite countertops.

Waterloo may be a bit of a stretch from central Toronto. It would probably mean a 1-1/2-hour drive along the 401, but once there, the city has considerable charm.

In 2007, it was named Canada's "smartest" city. It not only has two top-ranked universities — the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University — but is also the heart of a research triangle that is home to world-class high-tech companies like Research In Motion, creator of the ubiquitous BlackBerry.

In many ways, the proliferation of knowledge-based industries makes the city relatively immune to recessions, Mr. Mady points out. While his target market is empty nesters in the local area, he can see the combination of price and a more relaxed lifestyle winning a place in the hearts and pocketbooks of singles and couples in the Toronto area as well.

New Digs: 144 Park – Uptown Waterloo is a 19-storey tower with nine townhouses at its base, featuring 150 units in total
Lisa Van de Ven, National Post
Published: Friday, May 15, 2009
http://www.nationalpost.com/homes/story.html?id=1600348

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.nationalpost.com/homes/1600357.bin?size=404x272
Units include nine-foot ceilings, granite kitchen countertops, engineered hardwood and ceramic tile flooring.

Price range: From the mid-$200,000s to over $1-million

Location: Park Street and Allen Street, Waterloo

Featuring a brick, stone and glass exterior by Turner Fleischer Architects, 144 Park – Uptown Waterloo is a new project by Mady Development Corp. Rising 19 storeys, with nine townhouses at its base, the building features 150 units in total, and backs on to the Iron Horse Trail, part of the Trans Canada Trail system. The site is in pre-registration.

Builder/developer Mady Development Corp.

Building 19 storeys, with nine three-storey townhouses at its base

Suites One-bedroom, one-bedroom-plus-den, two-bedroom, two-bedroom-plus-den and three-bedroom layouts

Size 690 to 2,700 square feet

Occupancy Winter, 2011/2012

Target market Young professionals and empty nesters, many coming from the local area

Features Units include nine-foot ceilings, granite kitchen countertops, engineered hardwood, ceramic tile and carpet flooring, low-flow showers and toilets, stainless steel Energy Star appliances and optional gas fireplaces.

Amenities The project features an executive concierge, guest suite, fitness centre, and party room featuring a 2,500-sq.-ft. terrace with barbecues, a theatre space, a carwash bay and a bicycle storage area.

Standouts The site backs on to the Iron Horse Trail, part of the Trans Canada Trail system. Cafés, shops and other amenities are also a short walk away.

Sales office Currently in pre-registration. Call 519-954-8144 or visit 144park.ca.

Preview Invitations via email:

Mr. and Mrs. Randy Kinat
&
Mr. Charles Mady, CEO and Mr. David Mady, President
Mady Development Group

Cordially invite you to attend a very special VIP Preview Event
to view the luxury condominium residences of 144 Park.

DATE: Friday, May 22nd, 2009 TIME: 12 noon till 8:00 pm
DATE: Saturday, May 23rd, 2009 TIME: 12 noon till 5:00 pm
DATE: Sunday, May 24th, 2009 TIME: 12 noon till 5:00 pm

PLACE: 144 Park Condominium Presentation Centre, located at 21 Allen St. W., Waterloo

Please join us for a very special private preview, prior to our Grand Opening, of Waterloo’s finest condominium.

During this preview event we will answer any questions you may have about condominium living and invite you to view the outstanding suite designs and luxury features that will be 144 Park.

UrbanWaterloo

12-26-2009, 01:58 AM

City staff to back condos
Proposal goes to council June 1
May 20, 2009
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO
http://news.therecord.com/article/539600

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/cb/88/ed320c8d442cb1545604c3365f85.jpeghttp://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/56/52/e4eff6ef47feb00afa66c164dbf9.jpeg

Residents who live near a proposed condo development in the core area say their concerns about traffic and increased density have been ignored by the developer.

But Randy Kinat, who is co-developing the property at 21 Allen St. W. with Mady Development Corporation of Markham, said "every study possible has been done to ensure our project meets all the requirements.

"When the project is completed, they will find there is no reason for any concern,'' Kinat said yesterday in an interview.

"The luxury we are doing will increase the property values of the uptown area,'' Kinat said.

Kinat said the $60-million luxury condo development will feature concierge services and private elevators in the brownstones.

The 19-storey condo development -- 144 Park -- at the corner of Park and Allen streets comes before council for approval on June 1.

The condo tower will have 149 units as well as eight three-storey brick townhouses.

The development will feature 160 parking spaces, 71 of them underground and a three-storey above-ground garage.

Construction is expected to begin in May 2010, Kinat said.

The plan includes tearing down the existing 95-year-old building, Ontario Table and Chair Co., said city planner Trevor Hawkins.

The factory, built in 1913, was the original home of the Quality Mattress Co. The name changed to Waterloo Bedding Co. in 1921. The building is not designated as a heritage property, nor is it recognized for its cultural value.

Hawkins said the developer has not yet applied for a demolition permit.

City staff will be recommending the developer's proposal to council be approved, Hawkins said.

The plan includes a zone change for the property, which is about one-third of a hectare in area, from industrial to multi-residential and an increase in density.

The developer wants to increase the density to 465 units per hectare from 250 units per hectare.

Hawkins said in exchange for increasing the density, the city will be asking the developer for additional streetscape improvements, including benches, landscaping and bicycle parking.

As well, the city will be asking for improvements along the Iron Horse Trail which is near the development and a piece of public art at the value of one per cent of construction costs.

Tanem Developments, which is building a 175-unit condo development at King Street and University Avenue, gave the city $165,000 for the public square in exchange for approved higher densities.

Hawkins said the cost of the public art has not yet been finalized.

Bill Kauffeldt, who lives in the nearby Catalina townhouse development, said he's concerned about the increased traffic and the lack of sunshine because of the tower building.

Becky Shaw, who lives on Allen Street, said the face of the neighbourhood will change with a second condo tower.

The Bauer Lofts at Park and King streets are set to open in July.

"They haven't taken community input into consideration. It seems that community input doesn't matter,'' she said.

Shaw said she's also worried about the traffic volume and increased density.

Formal Public Meeting - Monday June 1, 2009
Page 24
http://www.waterloo.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/CS_CLERKS_Minutes_2009/20090601_Packet_Committee_of_the_Whole_Meeting.pdf

Waterloo approves 19-storey condo
June 02, 2009
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO
http://news.therecord.com/article/546416

Waterloo councillors approved a controversial 19-storey condo development at the corner of Park and Allen streets in Waterloo at a committee meeting last night.

After nearly five hours of discussion and debate, councillors gave the go ahead to the developer to build the 143-unit luxury condo project.

"It's the best thing for Uptown Waterloo," said Randy Kinat who owns the building at 21 Allen St. W.

Kinat, along with Mady Development Corporation of Markham, is developing the project.

In an interview after the meeting, Kinat said he, along with city staff, will work with residents in the neighbourhood who are concerned with increased traffic.

Voting against the development was Coun. Diane Freeman and Coun. Ian McLean. Both councillors couldn't support the higher density and Freeman was also worried about the additional traffic in the area.

"We have to look forward and where is our city headed," said Mayor Brenda Halloran, who voted in favour of the project. "We need places to live and work and we need to make our cities walkable."

One after the other, residents had told councillors they aren't happy with the proposal.

Concerns ranged from increased traffic in the neighbourhood, the height of the 19-storey building at 62 metres, a lack of sun because of the height of the building, and the possibility of drivers using neighbourhood roads such as Norman Street as shortcuts.

"We welcome new neighbours but we are concerned with the increased traffic that 144 Park will bring," said Ann Liebau, who lives with her family on Norman Street.

About 10 people asked them to take another look before they approved condo development along with eight three-storey brick townhouses.

In exchange for increasing the density, to 465 units per hectare from 250 units per hectare the city will get additional streetscape and landscaping improvements, including benches, and improvements to the Iron Horse trail and bicycle parking.

David Antscherl said the condo development is a skyscraper and is out of scale for the rest of the neighbourhood.

Chris Leishman, who also lives on Norman Street with his wife and two children, said there are many young families, with 26 children living on Norman Street between Park Street and Avondale Road.

John Arndt, president of the North Waterloo Region Branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, said the Ontario Table and Chair Co. building should be saved because the structure is sound.

"It's a shame," he said. "We are at imminent risk of destroying a valued heritage property."

Arndt said if this plan goes ahead, the city is neglecting built heritage. Instead, the developer should incorporate the building into the project and complement the nearby Bauer building.

The factory, built in 1913, was the original home of the Quality Mattress Co. The name changed to Waterloo Bedding Co. in 1921. The building is not designated as a heritage property, nor is it recognized for its cultural value.

City planner Trevor Hawkins said industrial artifacts from the factory will be used in public art on Allen Street and placed along the Iron Horse trail.

At least one person was in favour of the project. Brian O'Heron plans to live there with his wife.

"If you don't approve this it is silliness," he said. "It will be beautiful."

Carol Wiebe from MHBC Planning Ltd., who spoke on behalf of the developer, said traffic will be increased by 10 per cent in the peak morning and afternoon rush hours. Wiebe said the development will generate $775,000 in property taxes for the city.

The $60-million luxury project will feature concierge services and private elevators in the brownstones.

The development will feature 160 parking spaces, 71 of them underground and a three-storey above-ground garage.

Residents share condo concerns
Increased traffic, esthetics among complaints as proposed Waterloo luxury building debated
June 02, 2009
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO
http://news.therecord.com/article/546386

One after the other, residents told Waterloo councillors that they aren't happy with the proposed luxury condo development at the corner of Park and Allen streets.

Concerns ranged from increased traffic in the neighbourhood, the height of the 19-storey building at 62 metres, a lack of sun because of the height of the building, and the possibility of drivers using neighbourhood roads such as Norman Street as shortcuts.

"We welcome new neighbours but we are concerned with the increased traffic that 144 Park will bring," said Ann Liebau, who lives with her family on Norman Street.

Up to eleven people spoke to council at a committee meeting last night and asked them to take another look before they approved 143-unit condo development along with eight three-storey brick townhouses at 21 Allen St. W.

Late last night, councillors had not made a decision and were still listening to delegations.

The developer, Randy Kinat along with Mady Development Corporation of Markham, wants to increase the density to 465 units per hectare from 250 units per hectare.

In exchange for increasing the density, the city will get additional streetscape and landscaping improvements, including benches and improvements to the Iron Horse trail and bicycle parking.

David Antscherl said the condo development is a skyscraper and is out of scale for the rest of the neighbourhood.

Chris Leishman, who also lives on Norman Street with his wife and two children, said there are many young families living on Norman Street between Park Street and Avondale Road.

Aimée Morrison, who moved to the area in 2005, said she's worried about the "uncareful promotion of high density."

Morrison said she, too, is in favour of intensification but she says the proposed development is too large, too tall and the site is too small.

John Arndt, president of the North Waterloo Region Branch of the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario, said the Ontario Table and Chair Co. building should be saved because the structure is sound.

"It's a shame," he said. "We are at imminent risk of destroying a valued heritage property."

Arndt said if this plan goes ahead, the city is neglecting built heritage. Instead, the developer should incorporate the building into the project and complement the nearby Bauer building.

The factory, built in 1913, was the original home of the Quality Mattress Co. The name changed to Waterloo Bedding Co. in 1921.

The building is not designated as a heritage property, nor is it recognized for its cultural value.

City planner Trevor Hawkins said industrial artifacts from the factory will be used in public art on Allen Street and placed along the Iron Horse trail.

At least one person was in favour of the project. Brian O'Heron plans to live there with his wife.

"If you don't approve this it is silliness," he said. "It will be beautiful."

Carol Wiebe from MHBC Planning Ltd., who spoke on behalf of the developer, said traffic will be increased by 10 per cent in the peak morning and afternoon rush hours. Wiebe said the development will generate $775,000 in property taxes for the city.

The $60-million luxury project will feature concierge services and private elevators in the brownstones.

The development will feature 160 parking spaces, 71 of them underground and a three-storey above-ground garage.

UrbanWaterloo

12-26-2009, 02:58 AM

Condos keep selling despite the recession
June 04, 2009
Liz Monteiro, RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO REGION
http://news.therecord.com/article/547572

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/64/e5/a14e628c4c3491bc7ffc4ad46187.jpeg

There are two kinds of condo buyers in Waterloo Region.

Even in a recession, average condominium buyers are empty-nesters and young professionals, such as tech workers, say condo developers.

The empty-nesters live in suburbia and, now that their children are grown and leaving the house, they no longer want or need a large home and all the upkeep that goes with it, said Vickie Griffiths, who works for a Toronto-based marketing company that helps developers market condos.

Young professionals want to live in a maintenance-free building in the core area, and walk to stores and restaurants.

Take Jeff Gadway. He's a Wilfrid Laurier University business graduate who's worked in marketing at RIM for three years.

Gadway is 24 and looking to buy his first home.

He was at a recent private preview for luxury condos at 144 Park, a 19-storey condo development with 143 units set for the corner of Park and Allen streets in Waterloo. The project will also include eight three-storey brick townhouses.

The development was approved by council this spring despite about 10 people speaking out against it, concerned with increased traffic and the high density of the building.

Gadway, who works long hours and travels for his job, says he's attracted to urban living and wants to move to the core area, walking to a revitalized uptown with restaurants and bars.

"I feel like I'm more suited to a condo lifestyle,'' said Gadway, who currently rents off Fischer-Hallman and Westmount roads.

Randy Kinat, who is co-developing 144 Park with Mady Development Corp. of Markham, said about 700 people had registered with his office by mid-May and shown interest in buying a condo.

Kinat said private viewings will be held with corporate groups, such as RIM, Sun Life, KPMG, and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

A one-bedroom condo starts at $235,000, while a two-bedroom with a den is priced at about $500,000. Two of the eight penthouses are more than $1 million, Kinat said.

Richard Magnussen and his wife live in a house in the Deer Ridge subdivision in Kitchener and are considering buying a 2,000-square-foot penthouse.

"We like the turnkey aspect of the condo,'' said Magnussen, who owns a furniture company based in New Hamburg. The couple has three adult children.

Magnussen, who travels often on business, said condo living fits his lifestyle.

"It's a cool building,'' said Magnussen, who was attracted by the luxury and living close to restaurants and the soon-to-open Vincenzo's.

Stephanie Edwards lives in a house in the Beechwood neighbourhood with her 17-year-old daughter. But her daughter is headed for university and Edwards is looking to downsize.

"I'm tired of cutting grass and weeding gardens,'' said Edwards, 37.

Edwards, who works as a sales manager for Royal Bank in southwestern Ontario, said the high-end condo at 144 Park wouldn't be out of her range.

But Edwards said as a potential buyer, she must look closely at the package of information and the agreement. "It's more than saying 'I like the floor plan,"' she said.

Peter Maxwell of Momentum Developments, which is building a 55-unit condo building at Bridgeport Road and Peppler Street, said about 65 per cent of their buyers are young professionals.

The condo building, labelled as eco chic, has four units left. Construction will begin in July and people can move in next summer.

In Cambridge, the Waterscape project in downtown Galt is under construction and buyers will be moving in next spring, said Paul De Haas, the developer behind the 115-unit tower at the north intersection of Water and Ainslie streets.

Seventy per cent of the units are sold and nearly three-quarters of typical buyers are couples over 50, he said.

Upscale condominiums coming to Park and Allen Streets
MADY GROUP: 144 PARK - UPTOWN WATERLOO
June 06, 2009
Daina Feick, Special to The Record
http://news.therecord.com/article/549183

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/10/12/15b571a04b9883509bcf2fad6f7c.jpeg
http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/81/3e/56d64d58444887cfaf4c3925c5d2.jpeg
http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/cf/a3/46b433d349c6adaaa33741851b9d.jpeg

Busy professionals and empty-nesters partial to luxurious urban living are among those expected to explore 144 Park - Uptown Waterloo, an up-and-coming condominium development in one of Waterloo's best known neighbourhoods.

Set to break ground in spring 2010, 144 Park (located at Park and Allen Streets and the former home of Ontario Table and Chair) represents the work of John Chow of Turner Fleischer Architects Inc., the same company that designed Toronto's Hazelton Hotel. Comprised of two elements - a stunning 19-storey brick, stone and glass high-rise and a base of nine three-storey townhomes inspired by Manhattan brownstones - the elegant address also promises comfort and convenience.

"It's going to be remarkable," affirms consultant, Brian Bennett, of the one acre development.

"It presents a great opportunity to live in an upscale development in a very desirable area ... close to lots of shops, cafes, restaurants and the Iron Horse Trail."

Within the tower, approximately 150 suites spanning 690 to 2,700 square feet offer exquisite, open living spaces with one-bedroom, one-bedroom plus den, two-bedroom and two-bedroom plus den configurations. Three bedrooms designs are available via the penthouses. Enviable appointments such as nine-foot ceilings, floor-to-ceiling windows, granite countertops, ceramic tile, engineered hardwood, lushly carpeted bedrooms and optional gas fireplaces grace each home's interior while Energy Star appliances, low flush toilets, high efficiency heating and cooling and a choice of electric or gas range tops and ovens represent the quality mechanicals. Each suite also includes its own balcony ranging from 65 to 200 square feet.

The townhomes, in turn, offer superb 1,800 square foot layouts, each with a private elevator, and the same interior appointments offered by the suites. Exteriors will complement the existing architecture of the surrounding neighbourhood.

With regard to 144 Park's amenities - all of which are intended to encourage a relaxing, carefree lifestyle - Bennett confirms a full-time, executive concierge, a guest suite for visiting family and friends, a state-of-the-art fitness centre, a 2,500 square foot landscaped outdoor terrace with lounging, entertaining and barbeque spaces, a party room with kitchen and bar and a home theatre with big screen television and surround sound. A carwash bay within the underground parking garage, ample bicycle storage and storage lockers are added bonuses.

To learn more at 144 Park - Uptown

Waterloo, including pre-selling details, Bennett encourages potential homebuyers to visit the development's presentation centre (located on the corner of Park and Allen Streets, Waterloo) today during the official grand opening, noon to 6 p.m.

"You'll have an opportunity to see the site plan, the exterior design of the building, various floorplans as well as vignettes of the kitchens, living areas and bathrooms and ask questions."

Additional information about 144 Park - Uptown Waterloo is also available at www.144park.ca or by calling Trudy Smith at 519-954-8144. Prices start in the mid $200,000 range.Following today's grand opening, 144 Park - Uptown Waterloo's presentation centre's will be open Monday to Wednesday, noon to 8 p.m., and weekends, 1 to 5 p.m.

Intense concern over intensification
Province's planning initiatives bound to chafe existing residents
June 20, 2009
Brian Blackmere
http://news.therecord.com/article/556576

The Waterloo Region Home Builders' Association (WRHBA) has participated in the development of policies at the provincial, regional and local levels of government to help protect housing choice and affordability for new home buyers. It is abundantly clear that all current policies lead to more density, intensification and redevelopment in existing residential areas.

It was interesting to see that the editorial staff at both the Record and the Waterloo Chronicle in their June 3rd editions picked up on the issue of intensification initiatives prompted primarily by the recent approval by Waterloo Council of the 144 Park Street project. This is the site of the old Ontario Table and Chair building at Park Street and Allen Street in Waterloo that is now approved to proceed with a 19-storey condominium development along the King Street corridor.

The 144 Park Street development did not create the policies that direct developers to better utilize existing infrastructure and create density that would support transit; they are only implementing those policies.

Both articles rightly highlight the fact that the intensification that current planning legislation bestows on this Region will, by its very nature, continue to create confrontations between development interests trying to implement it and surrounding neighbourhoods that neither understand the planning context, nor want to understand it, if it means change to their immediate circumstance.

Change is something that mankind's psyche inherently shuns even though it has been borne out over the course of history that adaption to change is what so often defines the human spirit. Waterloo Councilor Jan d'Ailly summed it up well when he said, "Intensification can be scary, it really can."

Scary or not, this Region is on the cusp of significant changes in land use and housing form all being brought about by new regulations emanating from the Province and filtering down through Regional and local Official Plans. We also cannot ignore the huge impact that the possible reinvention of our transit system will have on land uses that will flank its route. The changes to transit being contemplated are viewed as being the catalyst of change supporting additional intensification.

There are not many residential neighbourhoods in this Region that should consider themselves exempt from intensification initiatives and all residents across this Region would be well advised to take some time to explore the realities of our new planning regime. Contact the Region or your local municipality with questions about long term land use planning and how it may affect your personal situation. There are not always definitive answers available but in some cases you may find that plans and regulations already exist that are there to promote change.

Local Councils have stated for years that they want the power to ensure difficult planning decisions are made locally, not by the Ontario Municipal Board. If this is true, our elected officials must all demonstrate the kind of strength shown by Waterloo Council when they approved the 144 Park Street project. Change doesn't have to be scary if everyone who has a part to play is fully informed.

Waterloo Region Home Builders' Association (WRHBA) is the voice of residential construction industry in Waterloo Region representing over 235 members companies. WRHBA is actively involved in all facets of the new home construction and residential renovation industries. It is a voluntary association whose primary goal is to positively impact the communities where their members and their customers live, work and play. Through ongoing representation to municipal government, media relations and consumer education, they address important issues head on and have a strong presence that benefits members and contributes to housing affordability and the well-being of communities in the Region of Waterloo. Visit www.wrhba.com for further association information.

144 Park
National Post
Published: Saturday, November 28, 2009
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=2278500

Price range: $216,900 to almost $1-million

Location: Park Street and Allen Street, Waterloo

With new suite designs now available, Mady Development Corp. has re-launched 144 Park in Waterloo. The 19-storey condominium building in Waterloo's uptown neighbourhood is close to shopping, restaurants, parks and recreational facilities, with building amenities that include a fitness area, a guest suite and a theatre room.

BUILDER/DEVELOPER Mady Development Corp.

WHAT'S NEW The project has been re-launched with new suite designs available.

BUILDING 19 storeys

SUITES One-bedroom, one-bedroom-plus-den, two-bedroom-plus-den and three-bedroom layouts, including a collection of brownstones along the base of the building. Penthouse suites are customizable and can be combined for larger units.

SIZE 669 to 2,210 square feet

OCCUPANCY 2012

TARGET MARKET Empty nesters and young professionals

FEATURES Engineered hardwood flooring in the living room, dining room and den, granite kitchen countertops, cultured marble bathroom countertops, stainless steel appliances and nine-foot ceilings. Penthouses have 10-foot ceilings.

AMENITIES The building features a fitness area, a guest suite, a theatre room, a lounge area, and an outdoor terrace.

STANDOUTS The project is close to shopping, recreational facilities, parks and restaurants. The new HST is also included in all of the site's pricing.

SALES OFFICE Located at the corner of Park and Allen streets in Waterloo. Open Monday to Thursday from noon to 6 p.m. and weekends from noon to 5 p.m. Call 519-954-8144 or visit 144park.ca.L.V., National Post

Spokes

12-26-2009, 09:53 AM

I'm interested to see if anything happens to that second "half" of that block. And how it'll affect the Iron Horse Trail. If both developments butt right up to the trail and they use a lot of trees as to provide a buffer between building and trail it could provide a really nice/interesting part of the trail. I can picture it being a sort of canopy over the trail. A bit of nature in the middle of an urban area.

jay

12-26-2009, 11:28 PM

I just hope this goes though. I haven't heard much since they reduced the deposits. Any news on "when" or "if" this will start?

Spokes

12-27-2009, 10:15 AM

You'd have thought the new down payment system would draw more people. Were you guys notified about it by their email list? I could have sworn I signed up for it, but never got anything.

Just a detail about this project, it's 100% residential right? No retail/commercial?

UrbanWaterloo

12-27-2009, 12:03 PM

Yes 100% residential, which is fine IMO since there's a lot of commercial the next block over at Bauer. I'm heading uptown this afternoon so I'll try to get an update on sales. Roughly speaking when i was there in early September the figure they gave was 20% sold, by the end of Sept (after the new financing structure had been launched - see price list above) I was told 30%.

jay

12-27-2009, 08:25 PM

100% residential. I didn't get the email either and haven't been in since.

UrbanWaterloo

12-27-2009, 08:33 PM

Made an attempt to get us a sales figure today. Unfortunately the sales office was still closed for the holidays. It re-opens tomorrow so hopefully I'll get a chance to head there then (if not then someday this week).

Spokes

12-27-2009, 11:14 PM

100% residential. I didn't get the email either and haven't been in since.

That's wierd. You'd think getting in touch with the people on their mailing list would have been the first thing they'd do.

Spokes

01-14-2010, 01:13 PM

Promotional video for 144 Park:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWkGrlY_P2Y

jay

01-14-2010, 01:57 PM

It was from email and some by mail. We got notified when they changed the down payment structure. They messed up big time with that and it shows in the sales. The sales people also were telling people back when it went on sale that it would sell out asap so better buy now. I know a couple of people who won't even go back after they got the letter.

It's 100 residential they just plan on reaping the benefits of being beside the Bauer Buildings.

They were supposed to make a "build" or "no build" decision in December and that never happened. I am hoping the sales pickup in the spring or once the Bauer is finished and more people get a sense what the area could be like. Unfortunately I think this project won't even get the go ahead to build until the end of 2010 and maybe start building late 2011 or so.

Once Center Block sales office opens in August like they claim it will, it might make for some competition. I know it's Kitchener but still I think some people might like it especially if it's cheaper. Also if Barrel Yards another delayed project ever opens a sales office for the condo part of the project that will take people away, with it being in Uptown as well.

Spokes

01-14-2010, 05:43 PM

One thing that could hurt 144 is that since it's a more expensive project you wouldn't get as many investors buying properties to rent. Whereas with a less expensive project you would see that happening more often. This doesn't make a huge difference, but its one small factor.

RangersFan

01-25-2010, 08:30 PM

I was at the sales centre today and it seems like the units have been selling pretty well. I was also really impressed with the sales office, that Table and Chair building is really cool, its to bad that the development wasn't the next corner over for that reason alone. Seeing the 3D model of 144 Park really gives you an impression of how impressive this building will be. The roof top terrace also looks really cool, I also think the large wall size windows are another awesome feature. The sales rep told me that they hope to demolish the current buildings in spring and hope to have shovels in the ground for 144 Park in August, with occupancy aimed for 2012. I really wish the BarrelYards and/or the Centre Block sales office's were open for something to compare to. I also never really noticed that the parking structure is above ground just hidden by the brownstones, which I feel helps to give the building a very prominent podium style. He said this was done to hopefully avoid some of the problems the Bauer Builder faced, with underground parking.

All in all I would like to see this project go ahead, and I would like to see future projects by Mady Developments come to Waterloo Region.

jay

01-25-2010, 08:42 PM

That is great news!

So they are building even if they haven't sold 70% or so of the units?

The fact that the parking is above ground is a great idea after what happened to Bauer. There is no way that land is clean deep in the ground.

Do they have a suite setup? or is it still just the kitchen/bath

RangersFan

01-25-2010, 08:48 PM

Well basically he still mentioned something about a deciding date, but it sounded like the sales have been pretty decent, told me that he sold two units today. I also learned that the type of layout I am looking at only has 3 units remaining. Yeah it was still just the Kitchen and bath setup, but I was pretty pleased with what I saw.

Spokes

01-25-2010, 08:51 PM

Spokes

01-25-2010, 09:11 PM

RangersFan

01-25-2010, 09:14 PM

No he didn't really, after he told me only 3 of the units of the style that I wanted were left I just started thinking, if I am going to buy one of these I got to make up my mind soon.

Spokes

01-25-2010, 09:26 PM

Which unit are you looking at?

jay

01-28-2010, 10:42 PM

The issue with Bauer I talked about was the soil contamination they ran into when they dug the u/g parking and it delayed the project for awhile until they figured out who was going pay for it

Spokes

01-29-2010, 07:22 AM

The issue with Bauer I talked about was the soil contamination they ran into when they dug the u/g parking and it delayed the project for awhile until they figured out who was going pay for it

So that won't be an issue here? Because they dont have to dig down more than a few feet?

jay

01-29-2010, 08:08 AM

Probably not.

RangersFan

01-29-2010, 08:57 AM

The sales guy was telling me part of the soil contaimination issue with the Bauer buildings was due to soap.

Floor2012

01-29-2010, 07:28 PM

So that won't be an issue here? Because they dont have to dig down more than a few feet?

Actually at 144Park they are planning 5 levels of parking: 2 underground and 3 above ground(behind the 3 storey townhouses).

I had heard that one problem with the underground parking at Bauer is that it goes below the water table, thus requiring sump pumps to run continually.

Floor2012

01-29-2010, 07:35 PM

Did he give any indication of how many more sales they need to start building?

I understand that they need 80% of the units to be sold (or thereabouts) to get their financing. My questimate is that they are around 50% sold now. They plan to continue to market through the winter/spring parallel with the design and approval stages and dig a hole next August(?). I don't expect anyone will be living in it until late 2012 or early 2013.

jay

01-29-2010, 07:45 PM

Ya there is a sub pump running all the time at bauer. But if 144 park is going to have 2 floors underground I assume they will have the same issue. Bauer is only 2 floors and 144 park beside it. So I guessing the water table would be low there also.

Plus I question the fact that they say there isn't a soil issue at 144 park again with it being formal industrial site and again with the close proximity to Bauer. Time will tell on this. No need to debate it.

If there is one thing I have learned from buying a condo is never believe what they tell you cause they tell you what you want to hear to get you to sign then claim whatever. I love this project but I fear it be around 2014 like was stated before; before anyone is close to moving in and I doubt they are telling people that.

Floor2012

01-29-2010, 07:58 PM

jay

01-29-2010, 09:19 PM

Ya it would be nice to avoid it all together and do the 4th floor of parking. I'm sure they could design it too work around it. Or to make the podium on the above ground parking a little wider so they could only do 1 floor underground and 3 above but still get the same amount of space.

I'm not sure if they would redesign it. The fact that they say they hope to avoid it worries me.

Also having the sub pump run isn't necessary a bad thing I've been told it's not a big cost to run it. Our condo fees are .026/sq/ft and maybe they might go up a bit after it's registered but I assume they took into account the cost of running the system and thought it wouldn't be bad and built the 2 floors u/g

UrbanWaterloo

01-30-2010, 08:35 PM

The Sales Centre
A disappointment is there's no real model suite.

September 27, 2009
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-September272009-FamilyCa-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-September272009-FamilyCamer.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-September272009-FamilyCa-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-September272009-FamilyCa-3.jpg

October 15, 2009

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-October152009-6.jpg

Section ThirtyOne

02-02-2010, 11:37 AM

Does anyone have an up-to-date price list?

Section ThirtyOne

02-02-2010, 08:16 PM

I emailed them today regarding a price list and availability. Lets see if they want me to come in to the sales office for this privileged information. :)

RangersFan

02-02-2010, 09:52 PM

This is a price list I got last week.
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/144Parkpricelist.jpg

jay

02-02-2010, 10:33 PM

You have to book a appointment if you want to see availability on suites.

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 12:08 PM

This is a price list I got last week.
[IMG]http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac273/leaffan431/144Parkpricelist.jpg[/MG]

Thanks very much! I haven't received a response yet from them, but you may be right regarding the availability list.

Did you go in to visit the sales office? If so, what were your impressions? The standard features list looks quite good.

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 12:16 PM

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 12:33 PM

I did goto the sales office last Monday, I was pretty impressed, I really like everything about this development. I just find the condo fees to be pretty high. I am still considering buying a unit there, the interior of Table and Chair building is pretty impressive.

Wow, I hadn't noticed that. ~$400/mo for a ~1000 sqft unit right out of the gate is pretty steep. However, it does include all of your utilities (even natural gas for the range/fireplace!) aside from hydro which helps soften the blow.

Also it has been my experience that condo corps who have higher fees from the beginning, tend not to have special assessments later on down the road. :cool:

Spokes

02-03-2010, 12:34 PM

How does 39 cents per sq ft compare to other developments? Wasn't Bauer (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/40-Bauer-Buildings-|-57-m-|-15-4-2-fl-|-U-C) around 29? The42 (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/42-the42-|-23-m-|-6-fl-|-U-C) was 29.

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 12:36 PM

And yowza, the City of Waterloo isn't wasting any time with high property taxes either. $4700/year for a ~$340,000 condo? Ouch.

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 12:39 PM

Spokes

02-03-2010, 12:50 PM

As of yesterday, the anticipated condo fees at the 42 remain at 0.29/sqft.

Anticipated? Do they change?

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 12:56 PM

I did not realize the condo fees included utilities (besides hydro) what else do they cover?

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 01:10 PM

Anticipated? Do they change?
They sure can. You'll notice that most (if not all) condo literature lists "approximate" condo fees. Even if they didn't, the condo corporation always has the ability to either change the fees after the first month, or propose a special assessment. ;)

Section ThirtyOne

02-03-2010, 01:12 PM

I did not realize the condo fees included utilities (besides hydro) what else do they cover?

It's all in the little maintenance box at the bottom of your price list: heating and cooling, central water softening, water and natural gas. And of course the usual: grounds maintenance, garbage removal, snow removal, common facility upkeep, etc.

RangersFan

02-03-2010, 02:04 PM

jay

02-03-2010, 02:40 PM

The property taxes are high, but that is Waterloo. It goes by the purchase price and it's the same for a home.

The way I look at condo fees is that you pay around 100-150 for the luxury of not having to do anything. The rest is justified. I realize it isn't always like that but it is what it is. I used to own a home and there is quite a bit of hidden costs in them especially if it's older.

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

02-03-2010, 03:39 PM

I guess i never really paid too much attention to that. That makes things a little more "sane" for me. Its also kind of odd that there is parking and locker maintenance fees I do remember reading that before. I wonder how big the lockers are, and do you have to get one?

I would suggest getting a locker regardless. It may not be of use to you but that could make or break a deal down the road if you ever decided to sell.

Some people just love to hoard.

Floor2012

02-03-2010, 05:23 PM

They sure can. You'll notice that most (if not all) condo literature lists "approximate" condo fees. Even if they didn't, the condo corporation always has the ability to either change the fees after the first month, or propose a special assessment. ;)

Year 1 costs are whatever is stated in the disclosure statements. (39 cents/ft.) Any shortfall in year 1 has to be paid for by the developer. The condo corporation can change fees in year 2 based on cost projections at that time. HST will have an impact for sure. Remember these costs start at occupancy which is 3? 4? years out. It will be interesting to see what the Bauer folks experience beginning next summer/fall at the end of year 1. I think the Kaufman Lofts fees currently exceed 40 cents/ft.

jay

02-03-2010, 06:17 PM

As a resident in Bauer I am curious also, right now it's cheap but it could go up. I doubt it's going jump to high also the fact that the building is new should help keep the price in check.

Floor2012

02-03-2010, 07:30 PM

As a resident in Bauer I am curious also, right now it's cheap but it could go up. I doubt it's going jump to high also the fact that the building is new should help keep the price in check.

I hope for your sake that you are right. However, the current rates were set back in 2005. I expect that they may not be maintainable at the current, perhaps low levels. Also HST comes in July 2010, which will affect many ongoing operational costs for the Bauer in year 2. I'm not quite sure how it works with overall reserve funds (old versus new building), but I think the condo corporations have to abide by certain threshold levels, much like banks. Sometimes older buildings with large reserve funds accumulated over time are the ones that are able to keep their condo fees lower.

jay

02-03-2010, 08:34 PM

true I hear what your saying. On the Kaufman Lofts post you made I texted my buddy who lives there and he pays .35 cents a square foot.

Floor2012

02-03-2010, 10:23 PM

true I hear what your saying. On the Kaufman Lofts post you made I texted my buddy who lives there and he pays .35 cents a square foot.

I was just going by the two units that are currently listed on MLS. Their math yields 42 and 44 cents per ft.

UrbanWaterloo

02-08-2010, 02:42 PM

Daily Commercial News (http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=b03bdd28ecfc1bf86b375c5ee046ae0a39588f4e&projectid=9101657&region=ontario)
This report Fri Feb 05, 2010.

CONDOMINIUM APARTMENT BUILDING Proj: 9101657-3
Waterloo, Waterloo Reg ON NEGOTIATED/PLANNING
144 Park - Uptown Waterloo, 144 Park St & Allen St, N2L 1Y6
$21,000,000 est
Note: Sales and marketing are ongoing. Architect has completed Preliminary designs. Working Drawings are expected to begin April/May 2010. Sub trade Tender is expected to be issued Summer 2010. Further update Spring 2010.
Project: cast-in-place concrete structural frame, fuel fired heating system, proposed construction of a 143-unit condominium apartment building.
Scope: 187,000 square feet; 143 units
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs
First report Tue May 26, 2009. Last report Wed Oct 07, 2009.

Spokes

02-08-2010, 03:42 PM

So does that mean we're looking at summer at the earliest before this gets going?

RangersFan

02-08-2010, 05:27 PM

Well the demolition is suppose to happen early spring and then construction hopefully starts in August. According to the sales rep anyways.

jay

02-11-2010, 02:25 PM

A article the Globe and Mail had about how HST is affecting condos. Midway though they talk about how Mady is going swallow the HST on 144 Park and there other development on South Unionville Square in Markham

Builders Tinker With Prices To Fit HST

After a burst of outrage when it was first announced, home builders and high-rise developers across the province have reluctantly accepted that the new harmonized sales tax is here to stay come July 1.

Most affected are those operating within the Greater Toronto Area. With a $400,000 starting point for application of the HST, new homes in smaller centres will – in the main – be exempt.

“I think maybe just 5 per cent of our homes are affected,” says Sid Kerrigan, president of Brookfield Homes (Ontario) Ltd. “We have projects in Oshawa, Bradford, Brantford and Niagara-on-the-Lake. In all of them almost everything comes in well below $400,000.”

The GTA, however, has been hard hit. With the average price of a new low-rise home standing at almost $460,000 and the average new condo price weighing in at $398,000, builders have had to scramble to decide what to do about pricing.

The choice was relatively easy for projects well under way. The province has said that anything on which a contract was signed before June 18 would be grandfathered in the new legislation; there would be no HST on these units, even if closing takes place after July 1 of this year.

For projects with unsold inventory and those launched after June 18, however, builders faced a number of choices: They could eat the HST and not raise prices for projects already launched; raise prices on suites; factor the HST into the selling price of projects yet to be launched, or redesign suites to make them small enough that their prices would slip below the magic $400,000 mark.

“I think you will see redesign of suites going on in new projects,” says Hunter Milbourne, president of Hunter Milbourne Real Estate Inc., a condo brokerage and marketing firm that has about 20 projects on the go in the GTA.

“Builders will look at their pro formas, and if it costs $600 a foot to build and the price based on size is just over $400,000, then they will redesign to bring it in under that $400,000 mark,” he says. “If, however, the price comes in at maybe $450,000, then they will likely adjust the size of the suite upwards and charge maybe $500,000 or $600,000.”

The idea is that people willing to fork out that much for a new condo are probably willing to pay HST for the larger floor space. At the same time, however, it also suggests that Toronto’s already small condos may be getting smaller.

Larry Blankenstein, president of Lash Development Corp. says he and his partner The Goldman Group simply ate the HST on 530 St. Clair West, a sister building to 500 St. Clair West on St. Clair Avenue at Bathurst Street. While 500 was well under way by June 18, with most suites sold and therefore grandfathered into the HST provisions, 530 was not launched until October.

“There was so much confusion about what was going to happen with the HST, we did not know what the impact would be on sales,” he says. “So we decided at that time to just eat the tax on any of the suites which would be affected. Happily, about two-thirds of them fall below the $400,000 mark.”

Chuck Mady of Mady Development Corp. says his company swallowed the HST on the two projects it had already launched – 144 Park in Waterloo and South Unionville Square in Markham – but factored it into the proposed selling price for suites at two yet-to-be-launched projects The Milliken condos at 4600 Steeles Ave. and a sister tower across the road.

“For the ones we had already launched, we just didn’t think they would sell if we tacked the HST on top of the selling price, so we absorbed it,” he says. “And with the new ones, we factored it into the selling price because I think if people had to pay it on top then that would have been a major deterrent.”

But whether the HST is absorbed in selling prices or grandfathered, buyers will face a couple more unpleasant surprises come closing.

Mr. Milbourne says HST will raise closing costs because certain services that have been exempt will be subject to the HST. Condo closing costs now start at around $10,000, even for a small one-bedroom.

Monthly maintenance fees will also be hit.

“There is not really much a developer can do about that,” he says. “The two biggest costs for maintenance are utilities, which are about 30 to 35 per cent, and staff like concierges and resident superintendents, which is about 25 per cent. Cutting back on the rest of the items that make up maintenance won’t make much of a difference.”

He's right nobody in Waterloo would pay extra for it and the sales show. Should be interesting how many "high end" condos go up in Waterloo now with HST. I've noticed that units over 400k have had hard time selling in this area and I don't think making the units bigger and therefore more expensive will work in Waterloo. For example 500-600k units.

WatDot

02-11-2010, 03:39 PM

He's right nobody in Waterloo would pay extra for it and the sales show. Should be interesting how many "high end" condos go up in Waterloo now with HST. I've noticed that units over 400k have had hard time selling in this area and I don't think making the units bigger and therefore more expensive will work in Waterloo. For example 500-600k units.

I agree. What you get in a 400k condo compared to a single detached home for the same price in Waterloo is just too drastic still. Once the price of homes go up, because of a lack of new development land, I think you'll see more of a shift to these type of properties. HST and the availability of new homes in Waterloo will affect the luxury condo market for at least the next 5 years me thinks... and yes I realize "some" people prefer the luxury condo lifestyle, but it won't be enough locally to see these type of developments increase.

taylortbb

03-04-2010, 06:11 PM

Noticed an ad in the Chronicle today, they're advertising this as "Over 50% Sold". So I think this tells us we're somewhere in the 50%-60% range, I could see reaching 70% by August.

Spokes

03-04-2010, 06:28 PM

Great news! What does construction start at? 75%?

UrbanWaterloo

03-04-2010, 09:27 PM

RangersFan

03-04-2010, 10:11 PM

I am assuming all of the cheaper units have been sold.

jay

03-05-2010, 08:19 AM

Most if not all the cheap units are gone. They were gone early because I remember when they opened the sales office my family almost bought one for a investment and quite a bit of them where gone already. The updated price sheet still shows all the units and prices. I was in there last week and they say if you want to inquire about availability you need to book a appointment; Although the lady did say they have been selling a couple of units per week.

Floor2012

03-08-2010, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the tip taylor, this is awesome news! It depends on the project, but usually construction will commence somewhere between the 60-70% range. Off hand I forget the specific target for 144 Park, does anyone else recall exactly?

If units are now being priced from $314,990 it appears as though all the smaller units have sold. I need to pop in there and grab an updated price list soon to find out, unless someone else has one?

Waterloo Chronicle - March 3, 2010 - Page 17
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-WaterlooChronicle-March3201.jpg

For comparison purposes, Post 2...
September 27, 2009 (Picked-up: No Formal Date on Sheet)
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-PriceList-September272009.jpg

From a recent price sheet...

All the one bedrooms are gone.

The following prices have changed:

Model Old Price Current Price Increase

EX1000 $312,990 $329,990 $17,000
EX1058 $339,990 $349,990 $10,000
EX1152 $350,990 $361,990 $11,000
S958 $333,990 $340,990 $7,000
S1032 $358,990 $365,990 $7,000
S1286 $465,990 $494,990 $29,000

Some nice increases if you have already bought. The EX1000 must be popular. And the S1286!!!! I don't have an intro price list, but I thought that model started in the $445,000 range last Spring. That's a $50,000 increase.

jay

03-08-2010, 08:40 PM

Ya it is... Makes me laugh that the CEO said the company ate the HST... Doesn't seem that way now.

I'm surprised they increased the price after they had pretty lackluster sales to begin with, but it makes me believe they will build this and are confident it will sell. They are also around the price point of Westmount Grand, and this project is 10x better. That is probably working in their favour.

I wonder how many people buy a extra spot at 30k. It's a aggressive price and makes me think I paid a bargain for the extra spot I bought in the Bauer next door.

UrbanWaterloo

03-08-2010, 10:26 PM

[
And the S1286!!!! I don't have an intro price list, but I thought that model started in the $445,000 range last Spring. That's a $50,000 increase.

Thanks for the updated figures! Here's the original price list, and you're correct S1286 has gone up by $50K.

May 21, 2009
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-PriceList-May212009.jpg

but it makes me believe they will build this

Definitely hope you're right. :D

Floor2012

03-09-2010, 09:04 PM

I've been looking at this S1286 floorplan: http://144park.ca/s-1286.html. It seems decent but it's alot of money for 1286 sq.ft., 200 sq. ft. balcony, 14-17th floor with an unobstructed view over west Waterloo. Now that I've said it, maybe not. Is the current or even original price, a fair price? I like the Bauer because it's brick. 144Park is stone and brick. They both seem far superior to the stucco planned for Westmount Grand and the Barrelyards.

jay

03-09-2010, 09:16 PM

I live in Bauer and it's a different project. I love 144 Park but it's not Bauer. Bauer is a industrial loft feel with concrete ceilings and more of a urban look. Where 144 Park is more traditional.

And yes both are superior then Barrel yards and Westmount.

RangersFan

03-10-2010, 08:24 AM

The BarrelYards current renders (if you can call them current, and who knows what is actually going to happen there) show the 25-storey condo towers made of glass which I think would look very sharp. Mind you the photos are not the best, and what actually gets built maybe drastically different, as the plan seems to change, hotel project almost halfed in size but grew one storey, the 18 and 12 storey apartments may no longer exist in the plans, the 6 and 8 storey mixed units maybe two 11 storey buildings etc.

This is not to say that I do not agree with the previous posts as I am a huge fan of both the Bauer and 144 Park projects but I don't want to count out the BarrelYards until I have seen all the projects with my own eyes someday in the future.

Floor2012

03-26-2010, 09:09 PM

Found this on their website. Looks new. Sort of neat! http://144park.ca/your_address.html Use the scroll bars to see the panoramic view from several floors.

UrbanWaterloo

03-26-2010, 11:26 PM

Very cool find, thanks for posting!

http://144park.ca/images/144park_panorama_6th.jpg

http://144park.ca/images/144park_panorama_9th.jpg

http://144park.ca/images/144park_panorama_12th.jpg

http://144park.ca/images/144park_panorama_15th.jpg

http://144park.ca/images/144park_panorama_19th.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

03-31-2010, 11:26 AM

New Bus Shelter Ads (King & Allen - Waterloo Adult Recreation Centre) - March 29, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Waterloo/144%20Park/144Park-BusShelterAdvertisingKingAl.jpg

UrbanWaterloo

04-27-2010, 05:48 AM

Now being advertised as 60% Sold. :cool:

http://s0.2mdn.net/viewad/1368607/144ParkLtd_Apr_160x600.jpg http://s0.2mdn.net/viewad/1368607/144ParkLtd_Apr_300x250.jpg
www.waterloochronicle.ca

Razzie

04-27-2010, 11:51 AM

is it just me or is a good chunk of Allen Square cropped out of one of the photos?

van Hemessen

04-27-2010, 01:51 PM

I noticed that too. At first I thought it was just an artifact of having stitched a panoramic photo but it seems too deliberate....very strange.

taylortbb

04-27-2010, 05:22 PM

It looks like a stitching artifact to me. It isn't cropped out of any of the other photos, don't know why they'd do it to just one. It is also right on a seam line.

Razzie

04-28-2010, 01:02 AM

my bad - didn't notice how wide all those photos were.

van Hemessen

04-28-2010, 12:35 PM

A couple other things I noticed about that panorama.....

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l45/w-van/144Parkedit.png

I'm sure there are others that I didn't catch.

Spokes

04-28-2010, 04:08 PM

Wow that's wierd that there are so many errors in a single picture.

jay

04-28-2010, 05:22 PM

They probably want to make the view seem better :)

van Hemessen

04-28-2010, 07:01 PM

If that's true there will be some disappointed home buyers in a couple years. Or maybe pleasantly surprised?

charles robinson

04-29-2010, 02:54 PM

If that's true there will be some disappointed home buyers in a couple years. Or maybe pleasantly surprised?

I dont think that anything that is missing from this picture would be a view obstruction.
This is a stock photo that i have seen before...every time it is used there are comments on its inaccuracy. you'd think that the marketing people would just stop using it and find some current photos.

UrbanWaterloo

04-29-2010, 05:17 PM

Welcome to the forum charles!

van Hemessen

04-29-2010, 11:00 PM

I dont think that anything that is missing from this picture would be a view obstruction.
This is a stock photo that i have seen before...every time it is used there are comments on its inaccuracy. you'd think that the marketing people would just stop using it and find some current photos.

I didn't mean obstructions specifically, just the view in general. Welcome to the forum btw!

IEFBR14

05-12-2010, 12:47 PM

Now being advertised as 60% Sold. :cool:
And yet the two placards in front of the Sales Centre still say 50% :confused:

Floor2012

05-12-2010, 02:13 PM

And yet the two placards in front of the Sales Centre still say 50% :confused:

They are actually over 60% sold.

Some changes are happening as well. The 18th floor sub-penthouse is being removed. The 14-17th floor signature series is moving to the 15-18th floors. The 14th floor will be the executive floor plate, same as the 4-13th floors. Clearly a reaction to the stronger market for the suites in the 700-1150 sq.ft. range. I'm expecting a hole in the ground about mid Fall 2010.

IEFBR14

05-12-2010, 03:59 PM

They are actually over 60% sold.
I wasn't questioning that. It just seems odd that the Sales Centre signage isn't up-to-date with reality.

I'm expecting a hole in the ground about mid Fall 2010.How long do you expect construction to take? As a nearby resident who's lived through the traffic chaos created by Bauer and then the Park St re-do I'm hoping that 144 and 139 happen and end ASAP. I'm hoping that the resumption of peace and quiet occurs during my lifetime ;)

jay

05-12-2010, 04:02 PM

I figured 4 years... Could be less but at least 3.

Even if they start this fall it takes time to get all the permits, etc... the42 is a good example of that.

Floor2012

05-12-2010, 04:26 PM

I figured 4 years... Could be less but at least 3.

Even if they start this fall it takes time to get all the permits, etc... the42 is a good example of that.

My understanding is that the detailed building and site planning has started (architects, engineers, etc.) with final approval and permits by early Fall with excavating happening by mid to late Fall. I know it sounds optimistic for construction to start this Fall, but I'm also aware that the developer has some additional motivation in that development charges will be increasing next year. I believe they need a permit and a start to avoid the higher charges. If they do get started this Fall, I suspect that it will be 2-2.5 years before people start to occupy the lower floors and maybe 3-4 years for the higher floors. Let's guess that registration will happen in 2014.

jay

05-12-2010, 05:31 PM

I hear what your saying but I've learned over the years things happen and in business nothing goes according to plan. This is a big project.

Also I'm biased kinda because of my own experience with Bauer lofts where I bought in Nov 05 and closed May 2010. I know Bauer had it's share of issues but still, they also said we would be in by 07. Mady has to say all the right things or nobody would buy. It's easier to push the date later on.

IEFBR14

05-16-2010, 10:16 AM

I wasn't questioning that. It just seems odd that the Sales Centre signage isn't up-to-date with reality.
They are actually over 60% sold.
Well now they are. Is someone from the Sales Centre lurking here? ;)

Section ThirtyOne

06-22-2010, 10:33 AM

BRAND NEW RELEASE OF SUITES

A new configuration of suite designs now available on the upper floors!

I just received an email this morning with this as the first couple of lines. Does anyone know what this is about? Have they redesigned the units on the upper floors? If so, this is good news as I wasn't particularly fond of any of their old designs.

Floor2012

07-05-2010, 06:19 PM

I just received an email this morning with this as the first couple of lines. Does anyone know what this is about? Have they redesigned the units on the upper floors? If so, this is good news as I wasn't particularly fond of any of their old designs.

I was by the sales office recently. They are saying around 70% sold now. There doesn't appear to be any major redesign of suites, just the 13 and 14th floors are the same floor plate as 4-12. Apparently they are doing alot of calling to purchasers to see if anyone wants to move up, of course at a higher price. I was amazed by how some of the prices have jumped. For example, the S958 (a 2 bedroom plus den on the 14th floor) was $333,990 on relaunch last October. Today's price for the one remaining S958 on the 18th floor (10 foot ceilings) is $377,990. The S1286 (a 2 bedroom plus den on the 14th floor) on original launch over a year ago was $443,900. Today's price is $497,990 on the 17th floor. And at the other end of the spectrum, the S1262 started at $439,990 a year ago and is still at the same price.

Has anyone here purchased? Are you hearing anything?

jay

07-05-2010, 06:28 PM

Floor2012

07-05-2010, 06:37 PM

I'm not surprised they up'd the price. It's one of the nicest developments going on right now.

I don't know anyone who has bought one, but I looked at one awhile ago and they do call/email me every now and then. It was a smart move re-designing the upper suites, and the fact that they are 10ft high is a huge selling feature. Although, I wonder since it's a finished ceiling if the height will still be 10ft. At Bauer lofts people who got finished ceilings lost about a foot due to the track needed to hang the drywall.

Are they still breaking ground in August?

Only the 18th and 19th floors have 10 foot ceilings (the rest are 9 foot). The 18th floor is where the sub-penthouse was removed, so those on the 14-17 now 15-18 that were moved or since purchased on the 18th floor got 10 ceilings because that's how the building had been designed in the beginning.

I don't think they are breaking ground in August, more like late fall. The sales people are always sort of vague on those types of questions.

urbandreamer

07-05-2010, 10:24 PM

I think a price decrease is more likely. Starting to happen in the Toronto market...trickle down the 401 to K-W by fall, imho....

panamaniac

07-05-2010, 10:58 PM

I don't know that prices in KW will fall much - in the case of condos, I suspect an number of projects in the pipeline could be delayed, which would not be good news for either Barrel Yards or Centre Block. In the case of 144Park, if it is really 70 percent sold and people actually close on their units, the developer could probably wait out a pretty significant downturn in the market.

Urban_Enthusiast86

07-05-2010, 11:08 PM

I think a price decrease is more likely. Starting to happen in the Toronto market...trickle down the 401 to K-W by fall, imho....

Interesting...has this trend been to any noticable extent?

When late 2008 hit, and into 2009, thousands of jobs were lost in this region. And if I'm not mistaken, this was also the case in the GTA (especially the 905 industrial districts). But weirdly enough, housing prices have remained pretty flat here for the most part.

It seems 2010 has been a brighter year for us, at least in Waterloo Region. What factors would lead to a housing crash at this time?

Floor2012

07-05-2010, 11:35 PM

I think a price decrease is more likely. Starting to happen in the Toronto market...trickle down the 401 to K-W by fall, imho....

Interesting you should mention Toronto. On the weekend, I was driving along the Gardiner Expressway for the first time in a couple of years. I couldn't believe how many condo buildings are going up in that area. Traffic came to a halt and I quickly counted 9 cranes surrounding my spot on the highway. I can see why prices may decrease in Toronto. Too much supply.

I don't see Waterloo in the smae way. The Bauer is settling in with a few units for sale. The 42Lofts are getting built, being basically sold out and the 144Park will get built over the next few years. I see prices staying stable with a modest upward trend. However, The Westmount Grand will die and the next big unknown will be the prices on the BarrelYard condos. There will probably be a total of 500-600 units in the two 25 storey buildings. They will have to move slowly to keep the demand and prices in balance. Since it has taken 144Park more than a year to reach 70% sold, I don't see the market for 500-600 units of that type. More buildings like 42Lofts are likely to be successful and sustainable in this area.

Urban_Enthusiast86

07-05-2010, 11:49 PM

Interesting you should mention Toronto. On the weekend, I was driving along the Gardiner Expressway for the first time in a couple of years. I couldn't believe how many condo buildings are going up in that area. Traffic came to a halt and I quickly counted 9 cranes surrounding my spot on the highway. I can see why prices may decrease in Toronto. Too much supply.

Yeah, in places like Toronto and (especially) Vancouver, there's a lot of speculative development like that, with a lot of foreign investors flipping units, with no intention of living there. It's like playing the stock market. Condos don't really have that kind of craze attached to them out here. It would be interesting to see the real statistics on this, but I suspect a higher proportion of the people purchasing condos here represent real demand of people actually wanting to live in them.

mpd618

07-14-2010, 05:05 PM

Demolition of the houses on this property has begun.

Urban_Enthusiast86

07-14-2010, 05:44 PM

Demolition of the houses on this property has begun.

All that's left is for shovels to hit the ground and we got a show! :)

Spokes

07-14-2010, 05:55 PM

Great news! So theres the houses and then the old factory structure right?

Urban_Enthusiast86

07-14-2010, 06:00 PM

Great news! So theres the houses and then the old factory structure right?

That's right!

Spokes

07-14-2010, 06:10 PM

That's right!

Knock that sucker down!!

Wonder where they'll move the sales office though.

RangersFan

07-14-2010, 09:52 PM

It would be great to see this project get started, it would be a gem in the regions' skyline.

jay

07-14-2010, 10:04 PM

I wonder when they will demo the Ontario Table and Chair building

Spokes

07-14-2010, 10:38 PM

I wonder when they will demo the Ontario Table and Chair building

This isn't based on anything but a guess, but I'd say as soon as the houses are demolished. Why take them down and then stop? I'd guess they'd do it all at once, and then probably start excavation. Although they don't have to dig deep right?

They probably wont even need a sales centre soon. The42 has gone without a sales centre for quite a while now right?

SKPlanner

07-15-2010, 12:44 AM

Love that they've incorporated walk up residential units at grade level. This maintains the streetscape and keeps it consistent within its surrounding context. Further to this, this type of housing creates an active street front. Residents will be enjoying the summer breeze out on their front porch or they'll be tending to their front yard gardens. You wouldn't get this same vibrant, active and attractive streetscape had the main floor been used only for covered parking, or building amenities such as lobby, gym, pool, etc.

On top of that, incorporating this form of housing into the development diversifies they type of housing offered in the city.

Spokes

07-15-2010, 08:39 AM

jay

07-15-2010, 10:12 AM

The brownstones are a great idea. You even get your own private elevator in your suite.

I just wish they weren't so expensive...The condo fees are around $700 a month, you need to be rich to own one :)

diego

07-15-2010, 11:50 AM

The brownstones are a great idea. You even get your own private elevator in your suite.

Talk about irresponsible use of energy... an elevator for a three-story townhouse? When will developers (and society) get that we don't have unlimited resources?

WatDot

07-15-2010, 11:55 AM

Talk about irresponsible use of energy... an elevator for a three-story townhouse? When will developers (and society) get that we don't have unlimited resources?

When humans are no longer greedy... so don't hold your breath. ;)

Urbanomicon

07-15-2010, 12:34 PM

Talk about irresponsible use of energy... an elevator for a three-story townhouse? When will developers (and society) get that we don't have unlimited resources?

Try moving furniture up three stories (assuming you can fit it up a stairwell at all) and tell me an elevator isn't required. Well I don't think that each townhouse requires it's own personal elevator, a freight elevator that could service all of them would definetely be an asset.

bcwessel

07-15-2010, 01:24 PM

When humans are no longer greedy... so don't hold your breath. ;)

When crude goes past 90 dollars a barrel...so about 18 months, as far as serious analysts can tell.

Greg Moore

07-15-2010, 02:12 PM

Talk about irresponsible use of energy... an elevator for a three-story townhouse? When will developers (and society) get that we don't have unlimited resources?

You'll need the elevator for the trips to take a pee since there is no main floor bathroom.

KLM

07-15-2010, 02:42 PM

You'll need the elevator for the trips to take a pee since there is no main floor bathroom.

lol,thats a good one!

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

07-15-2010, 02:50 PM

This Saturday... you are invited...

To meet your new neighbours at a BBQ Social. All purchasers and past visitors are invited and are welcome to bring family and friends with them. Located in the heart of Waterloo, the 16th Annual Jazz Festival is just down the block. There is always something happening in Uptown Waterloo, and 144 Park is in the centre of the action.
Location: 144 Park Presentation Centre
Date: Saturday, July 17th
Time: 1 - 4 pm

Duke-of-Waterloo

07-15-2010, 11:29 PM

Capitalizing on the Uptown Jazz Festival this weekend I see? Maybe they will sell a few more while they're at it to really put a shovel in the ground?

Spokes

07-19-2010, 10:19 AM

Has any actual demolition happened yet? I biked past there yesterday and it looked like boards had been put up but that was about it. Maybe I missed something.

jay

07-19-2010, 11:31 AM

They haven't started yet. When I walked around there today they had a small crew putting up boards around the property's. I assume once this is done they will start demo'ing it.

mpd618

07-20-2010, 02:38 PM

They haven't started yet. When I walked around there today they had a small crew putting up boards around the property's. I assume once this is done they will start demo'ing it.

They've started putting up fencing around the old factory building.

UrbanWaterloo

08-14-2010, 06:01 PM

August 6, 2010

21 Allen Street West
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-1b.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-1c.jpg

Park Street & Allen Street West
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-2a.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-3a.jpg

142 Park Street
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-3b.jpg

144 Park Street
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-3c.jpg

148 Park Street
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Waterloo/144Park-August62010-3d.jpg

ruud

08-16-2010, 08:57 AM

Does anyone know when this project is going to start? The fences have been up for awhile and now have advertising on them. Not sure anymore if they are for marketing or for construction purposes.

Also it looks as though the house down from the three in the picture is still occupied. Wonder when that will be available.

mpd618

08-16-2010, 09:33 AM

Also it looks as though the house down from the three in the picture is still occupied. Wonder when that will be available.

That's not part of the 144 Park property.

ruud

08-16-2010, 09:56 AM

Thanks for the clarification... i was under the impression the property was streching down to the Iron horse trail

SP!RE

08-16-2010, 08:39 PM

The house closest to the Iron Horse Trail refused to sell. It will remain, in the shadow of the 144 Park development as far as I know.

DHLawrence

08-16-2010, 09:27 PM

Waterloo Region's first peg house!

Floor2012

09-10-2010, 09:31 PM

Heard they are about 80% sold now. Don't know when it will start, but it looks like the fence was a bit of a rouse, since no other signs of construction have followed.

ruud

09-13-2010, 08:30 AM

It was a while ago when I did the tour but I thought the sales agent claimed they will be starting construction this fall no matter what.

Wonder when we'll see some action.

Floor2012

10-08-2010, 07:49 PM

I know someone who bought a unit here. Recently, they received a letter from the developer: 80% sold, construction to start Spring 2011.

Urban_Enthusiast86

10-08-2010, 08:25 PM

I know someone who bought a unit here. Recently, they received a letter from the developer: 80% sold, construction to start Spring 2011.

Jeez, they must be waiting until it's 100% sold to start construction.

Floor2012

10-08-2010, 09:06 PM

Jeez, they must be waiting until it's 100% sold to start construction.

I doubt that they are waiting for it to be 100% sold, but that may just happen because of allowances for planning, approvals and winter weather.

jay

10-08-2010, 09:42 PM

It's probably a combination of things.. That is why you never take a developers word on when occupancy will happen.

2013-14 is when this will finish most likely.

BuildingScout

10-09-2010, 06:45 AM

jay

10-09-2010, 09:09 AM

I was told by a contractor that there is a severe shortage of the trades in the Waterloo region because of the many Economic-Action-Plan buildings with deadline of May 2011 as well as the Perimeter and CGI sites. In fact there are trades from as far as an hour north working in the city right now. I wonder if all of these commercial developments (144 Park, Arrow lofts, City Centre, Barrel Yards) are dragging their feet waiting for the trades shortage to abate.

Maybe, but I doubt it. 144 Park will use 80% Toronto trades when they start their build. Plus Mady Corp is a Markham company that has built other buildings, so they probably have a network of trades people.

Also when Bauer Lofts got built almost every trades person was from out of town, and the Balsillie School is being built with out of town trades also.

Spokes

10-09-2010, 09:11 AM

Maybe, but I doubt it. 144 Park will use 80% Toronto trades when they start their build. When Bauer Lofts got built almost every trades person was from out of town.

Why would they use all out of town trades?

jay

10-09-2010, 09:41 AM

Not every trade is from out of town, but most builders seem to have the majority of their trades from out of town for whatever reason. Probably has to do with the fact they are out of town developers.

I just know what I've experienced and heard.

KevinL

10-09-2010, 11:36 AM

Why would they use all out of town trades?

Yeah, if the developer's fromout of town they probably take the trades they're used to working with. Once you have someone relaible, it's probably easier to have them commute than to take your chances on someone you have no experience with.

Urbanomicon

10-10-2010, 01:45 AM

Why would they use all out of town trades?

The general contractor will issue a tender package and any contractor qualified can submit a bid for the job. The method for selecting the winning contractor is written into the tender documents, but is almost always based on price. So the lowest priced contractor will get the job, regardless of where they are from.

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

11-10-2010, 10:14 AM

Just a heads up, 144 Park will be increasing their prices on the remaining units.

jay

11-10-2010, 10:24 AM

When are they expecting to break ground?

ruud

11-10-2010, 12:31 PM

What units are left, there can't be more then 10?

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

11-10-2010, 01:30 PM

They are planning on breaking ground in Spring. There's a couple various units left.

Off the top of my head; EX690, EX722, a couple EX1000 & maybe an EX1152 all on various floors.

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

11-10-2010, 01:33 PM

I believe that there are 2-3 Brownstones available too.

Floor2012

11-10-2010, 07:27 PM

They are planning on breaking ground in Spring. There's a couple various units left.

Off the top of my head; EX690, EX722, a couple EX1000 & maybe an EX1152 all on various floors.

Since you are a real estate agent could you get a list of remaining units and their prices and post it here so we can see how it compares to the earlier price lists posted here?

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

11-11-2010, 11:38 AM

EX 690 - $264,990 14th Floor
EX 722 - $267,990 13th Floor
EX 1000 - $339,990 - $346,990 7th - 10th Floors

Thats a sample from what I wrote down. They've got a couple other units but now that they've hit 80% sold they are no longer updating the price sheets. It's all by appointment to meet with an agent.

johnba

12-14-2010, 09:54 AM

Greg Moore

12-14-2010, 10:32 AM

Any guesses on when this project will start? I remember being told it'd start in the Fall, but it looks like it's going to be Spring/Summer before we see some action on this one. How many years does a project this size take to complete? It'll be really good to see this one complete.

I've bought two units in the building. I've been told the demolition of the old furniture building will be in the spring.

metropolis

01-01-2011, 10:52 PM

Floor2012

01-08-2011, 08:35 PM

There was talk some time ago of a portion of the platform (ie. the brownstone unit on the corner closest to Caroline St.) being handed over to the owner of the adjoining gravel lot for another project. Does anyone know if this came to fruition?

I believe that this happened (only 8 townhouses shown on their website), but it was not a "handover", but rather an exchange of property to ensure that the 144 Park could increase the setback from the garage wall along part of the Iron Horse Trail.

See page 13 of:
http://www.city.waterloo.on.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/DS_DEVAPPROV_documents/DS09-25Allen.pdf

benjaminbach

03-12-2011, 12:51 PM

Update - looks like this is proceeding to construction - this just popped up online

CONDOMINIUM APARTMENT BUILDING Proj: 9101657-6 (http://journalofcommerce.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=b03bdd28ecfc1bf86b375c5ee046ae0a39588f4e&region=ontario&projectid=9101657)

Waterloo, Waterloo Reg ON NEGOTIATED/WORKING DRAWINGS

144 Park - Uptown Waterloo, 144 Park St & Allen St, N2L 1Y6

$21,000,000 est

Start: July, 2011 Complete: July, 2012

Note: Working drawings are underway and expected to be completed by late spring/early summer 2011. Sub trade pricing is not being accepted at this time. Further update summer 2011.

Project: cast-in-place concrete structural frame, fuel fired heating system, proposed construction of a 143-unit condominium apartment building.

Scope: 187,000 square feet; 143 units

First report Tue May 26, 2009. Last report Tue Oct 26, 2010.
This report Tue Mar 08, 2011.

jay

03-12-2011, 01:05 PM

1 year to complete?. LOL, what a joke :)

panamaniac

03-12-2011, 01:37 PM

1 year to complete?. LOL, what a joke :)

? Too optimistic?

jay

03-12-2011, 01:47 PM

? Too optimistic?

Just a little...There is a .0001% of it happening.

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

03-12-2011, 02:21 PM

Exciting news nonetheless.

benjaminbach

03-12-2011, 03:01 PM

Exciting news nonetheless.

I agree.

This is great for the area, but probably not great for the parking situation at the Bauer Lofts. I'd imagine the overflow parking lot will be tighter with construction going on next door !

Floor2012

03-12-2011, 03:07 PM

Mady knows this is a 2+ year build. Their outside occupancy date (after which they are subject to compensate the purchasers) is October 31, 2013.

So I would expect them to finish their working drawings in the next couple of months, put the work out to tender, demolish the T&C building and excavate by mid to late summer. That would probably see occupancy for some purchasers by Fall 2013.

According to BuzzBuzzhomes: http://blog.buzzbuzzhome.com/2011/03/144-park-almost-sold-out-construction.html the project is now 90% sold.

FancyNancy

03-12-2011, 06:30 PM

I agree that 1 year is pretty unrealisitic. I can't wait to see the building complete. Not excited about all the construction around the bauer with the build up.

ruud

04-18-2011, 08:39 AM

Any word on when construction is going to begin? I'm assuming the project is nearly sold out so there shouldn't be anything holding up demolition. Although Park St. is currently being torn up and repaved, there is still plenty of access for them to start.

RangersFan

05-05-2011, 01:29 PM

Does anyone know the timeline for the Park St. construction? Not saying that this is directly holding up the start of demolition but I am sure it's a factor. I really want to see 144 Park added to the skyline.

Floor2012

06-03-2011, 01:59 PM

I heard something this week that may be of interest to the readers here. Mady Development has purchased the land behind the 144 Park site. That is the parcel of land that contains the gravel parking lot used by many clients of Vicenzo's. Mady plans to build a second tower with a parking structure shared with 144 Park. The Iron House Trail will be rerouted around that area. They also purchased the last remaining house on Park St. but did not purchase the Sun Life parking garage. The Ontario Table and Chair building will come down this summer, with construction of 144 Park to begin by Labour Day. 144 Park is over 90% sold. Marketing for the new tower will begin before the end of this year.

benjaminbach

06-03-2011, 02:00 PM

^ I heard something to that effect too

RangersFan

06-03-2011, 02:18 PM

Wow Floor2012 that is big news, anymore details on the second tower? Would it be located between Vincenzos and the original 144 Park tower?

mpd618

06-03-2011, 02:20 PM

The Iron House Trail will be rerouted around that area.

What.

To where? And how can this so easily be an "it will happen" if it is city-owned?

Floor2012

06-03-2011, 02:44 PM

The second tower would be located on the block of land bounded by Caroline, Park, the Sun Life garage and the 144 Park. If you google map the satellite view you can see that the total piece of land is really a rectangle once the Iron Horse Trail is rerouted. And no I don't know exactly how the rerouting will happen but I understand that the City favours Mady redeveloping the whole block. Maybe the trail would just run along between the Sun Life garage and the second tower, hooking up again on Caroline Street. Obvoiusly there must have been alot of discussions and negotiations in recent months between Mady, The City and the group that owned the second piece of land. I heard at one point that this group (some of which were involved with the Bauer) were planning their own condominium on this site. Now Mady expects to build a second building that will be compatiable architecturally with the 144 Park. I don't have all the answers. I'm just one of the over 135 people who have purchased at 144 Park and received an update from the developer this week.

IEFBR14

06-03-2011, 03:30 PM

The Iron House Trail will be rerouted around that area.
Why "around" and not "through" the development? Presumably they have approval to build the first tower to the NW of the IHT. The SE side is at least as big. Mady could build an atrium or courtyard between the two towers that borders or even includes an IHT right-of-way.

http://1dl.us/k2G.jpg

mpd618

06-03-2011, 03:36 PM

Thanks for the informative updates, Floor2012.

I do not like that the City of Waterloo and the developers can (as it seems) so easily make decisions that affect a very important transportation corridor without consulting its users or the city's own Transportation & Trails Committee. (Or was it consulted?) The Iron Horse Trail should be more directly connected with the northern part of Caroline Street (as the rail was), rather than less.

I'm reminded of this stupid little jog in Hickory Street (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hickory+%26+regina,+waterloo,+on&aq=&sll=43.478577,-80.522919&sspn=0.003021,0.006899&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Regina+St+N+%26+Hickory+St+E,+Waterloo,+Wate rloo+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario,+Canada&ll=43.478662,-80.522887&spn=0.003021,0.006899&t=h&z=17), which is a likely consequence of prioritizing developer desires over coherent transportation connections for those on foot.

Floor2012

06-03-2011, 04:10 PM

Why "around" and not "through" the development? Presumably they have approval to build the first tower to the NW of the IHT. The SE side is at least as big. Mady could build an atrium or courtyard between the two towers that borders or even includes an IHT right-of-way.

This would be my first choice as well. It could look really nice.

I don't know all the considerations here. But some of it will be related to the shared parking structure. I'm not sure if it will be shared at one level below ground OR require some sharing/connectedness in the 3 levels above ground as well. I know that one factor is that they needed more parking for 144 Park and considered a few other options which included a second underground level which would have been submerged below the water table (definitely not preferred). As I recall the parking ramps as originally designed were going to be fairly steep given the footprint of the current 144 Park. If the parking structure is one large rectangle spread out under the two towers than the ramp inclines should be much earier to navigate.

markster

06-03-2011, 04:35 PM

plam

06-03-2011, 05:21 PM

There's a development in Toronto going on now that does just that. It's being built on a former railway spur, and the development is two mid-rise buildings that flank either side of the slightly curved right-of-way, which is to become a small open-air plaza.

I read about it on Urban Toronto, but I can't recall where it is, or what it's called.

[EDIT] Found it (http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/4600-Work-Lofts-amp-Flatiron-Lofts-in-The-quot-Film-District-quot-(Lamb-10-11s-Core)?p=513215#post513215)
And here's the location (http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=toronto&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&gl=ca&ll=43.664216,-79.340419&spn=0.004276,0.009452&t=h&z=17)

Reminds me of this (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=02139&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.664131,93.164063&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cambridge,+Massachusetts+02139&ll=42.362769,-71.09086&spn=0.002497,0.005686&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.362769,-71.09086&panoid=VxErsFVACCcWbjdIgbY-eg&cbp=12,205.19,,0,0.78).

Floor2012

06-03-2011, 07:54 PM

I don't think I'm going to post here anymore.

I don't appreciate others taking news/comments and posting them on their personal blogs for personal benefit.

http://www.benjaminbach.com/real-estate-investment/144-park-condos-in-waterloo-to-announce-second-tower/

plam

06-03-2011, 08:00 PM

I don't think I'm going to post here anymore.

I don't appreciate others taking news/comments and posting them on their personal blogs for personal benefit.

I have no affiliation with Ben. It seems to me that you posted something in a public place, so it's fair game for others to re-post (with attribution).

benjaminbach

06-03-2011, 09:13 PM

Floor2012 I meant no disrespect, I gave you attribution fpr the quote, and linked directly to your comment (with attribution to WonderfulWaterloo too).

This news is "out there" and you were not the initial source I heard it from (as noted above), however I did want to quote (with attribution) the additional detail you provided. Would you like me to remove it?

Greg Moore

06-03-2011, 10:33 PM

plam

06-03-2011, 11:11 PM

That is good news about the property. I'd love to see some commercial incorporated. Another nice restaurant would suit me just fine, and a variety store for late night sugar fixes. :)

It's too bad there is no LRT stop planned at Caroline/Allen with all the residential being built there. The Red, Bauer, 144 Park and its brother could have close to a thousand residents right there.

Indeed. It's about 600m from the Uptown stop and maybe 800m to the Grand River Hospital. So it's walkable, but a bit on the far side. But too many stops just slow down the LRT, which is not good either.

mpd618

06-03-2011, 11:43 PM

Indeed. It's about 600m from the Uptown stop and maybe 800m to the Grand River Hospital. So it's walkable, but a bit on the far side. But too many stops just slow down the LRT, which is not good either.

It would be more reasonable if the Uptown stop was moved from Willis Way to Erb/Caroline - not an unreasonable thing to do on its own.

IEFBR14

06-04-2011, 09:38 AM

It would be more reasonable if the Uptown stop was moved from Willis Way to Erb/Caroline - not an unreasonable thing to do on its own.
Would that then justify an new LRT stop near King and Allen? (Perhaps not at first, in part to keep the project on budget, but later as demand dictates.)

mpd618

06-04-2011, 11:56 AM

Would that then justify an new LRT stop near King and Allen? (Perhaps not at first, in part to keep the project on budget, but later as demand dictates.)

Sure, I don't see why not. Though again, it's a matter of station spacing - is 1.2 km the right distance, or 800m?

plam

06-04-2011, 11:58 AM

Sure, I don't see why not. Though again, it's a matter of station spacing - is 1.2 km the right distance, or 800m?

It's not uncommon to see subway stations at 800m intervals.

IEFBR14

06-04-2011, 12:05 PM

Google Maps shows 800m from Erb & Caroline to King & Allen then 900m along King to GRH.

bcwessel

06-04-2011, 11:10 PM

That is good news about the property. I'd love to see some commercial incorporated. Another nice restaurant would suit me just fine, and a variety store for late night sugar fixes. :)

It's too bad there is no LRT stop planned at Caroline/Allen with all the residential being built there. The Red, Bauer, 144 Park and its brother could have close to a thousand residents right there.

I think this lends some weight to the case for an extremely modest bike share roll-out in the relatively near future, with a station between the universities, one at the square in Waterloo, one at this growing cluster of Midtown condos, one at the future transit hub, and maybe one at City Hall (which would all hopefully be integrated with RIM's system).

WaterlooNative

06-04-2011, 11:41 PM

I'm surprised at this news. I understood that the owners of Vincenzo's owned the lot between 144 Park and the SunLife parking garage (I would also understand if there was confusion about whether the owners were Vincenzo's or the owners of the development). I think it is safe to say that nearly 100% of the parking on that lot services Vincenzo's. Given that the funeral home had to get a big sign that said "Funeral Home Parking Only" for their lot, I assumed that people were parking there when the dirt lot was full. I wonder if the Bauer folks worked out a deal for parking spaces in these developments? Otherwise, I could see things getting worse around there (especially on side streets).

benjaminbach

06-05-2011, 10:02 AM

Greg Moore

06-05-2011, 11:14 AM

I wonder when a developer will offer the city a new Adult Recreation Complex so they can develop the property at 185 King St. South. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=185+King+Street+South,+Waterloo,+Ontario,+Canada&aq=1&sll=43.460516,-80.519566&sspn=0.006553,0.004393&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=185+King+St+S,+Waterloo,+Waterloo+Regional+M unicipality,+Ontario+N2J+1P7,+Canada&t=h&z=17

diego

06-05-2011, 04:32 PM

That parking lot services people using all the commercial at Bauer, not just Vincenzos. I generally part in that lot, and I'm not usually there to shop at Vincenzos.

The parking at Bauer will be *bad* when the overflow lot is gone. Bad.

Hopefully this whole car centric culture will have changed by the time this lot is gone, especially in this area and when the LRT is built. Can't believe how comments like this are made about downtowns... I mean Bauer has a ridiculously excessive amount of surface parking plus 2 levels underground that are half empty ALL the time (used to live there, so I've seen it in person). Half of that horrendous surface parking lot could have been used for something way better like a playground or plaza.

mpd618

06-29-2011, 09:26 PM

Notice of an intention to pass an amending by-law to remove a holding (H) provision from the zoning by-law
June 29, 2011 | City of Waterloo | Link (http://waterloo.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=78&mid=526&def=News Article View&ItemId=1607)
The City of Waterloo intends to pass an amending by-law to remove the holding provision (H) on the lands known municipally as 21 Allen St W and 142, 144 and 148 Park St. The removal of this holding provision will permit the applicant to proceed with the development of a residential building in conformity with Official Plan Amendment No. 70 and in compliance with Site Specific Zoning By-Law 09-071.

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

06-30-2011, 10:17 AM

Very exciting.

WaterlooNative

06-30-2011, 03:15 PM

Can anyone provide insight on what Official Plan Amendment No. 70 and Site Specific Zoning By-Law 09-071 will address?

mpd618

07-01-2011, 03:53 PM

Can anyone provide insight on what Official Plan Amendment No. 70 and Site Specific Zoning By-Law 09-071 will address?

I'm going to guess that the rezoning for 144 Park was on hold until the infrastructure under Park Street was sufficiently upgraded. Now that this is being finished, the city can now remove the holding provision and let 144 Park get on with it.

HillDweller

07-10-2011, 11:30 AM

It looks like they're getting ready to start.

CONDOMINIUM APARTMENT BUILDING Proj: 9101657-8
Waterloo, Waterloo Reg ON NEGOTIATED/START
144 Park - Uptown Waterloo, 144 Park St & Allen St, N2L 1Y6
$21,000,000 est
Start: July, 2011 Complete: July, 2012
Note: Sub trade tender will be issued July 29, 2011. Please contact Keith Stott at Mady Development Corp phone: 905-944-0907 ext: 185.
Project: cast-in-place concrete structural frame, fuel fired heating system, proposed construction of a 143-unit condominium apartment building.
Scope: 187,000 square feet; 19 storeys; 1 storey below grade; 149 units; parking for 185 cars
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs

UWaterloo

07-11-2011, 10:23 PM

I'm really excited about this development. Beautiful building......will add to a nice "midtown" cluster in this area.

mpd618

07-11-2011, 10:36 PM

Scope: 187,000 square feet; 19 storeys; 1 storey below grade; 149 units; parking for 185 cars

Do 185 cars fit in one below-grade storey?

ruud

07-11-2011, 10:40 PM

Do 185 cars fit in one below-grade storey?

the first three stories are for parking.

mpd618

07-11-2011, 11:55 PM

the first three stories are for parking.

As in, behind the facade of townhouses? That's not so bad - though if the other two sides are just walls, it's a pretty bad interaction with the Iron Horse Trail (assuming it does continue to go behind the building).

Trogdor

07-14-2011, 06:40 PM

There was a lot of activity out front of the site today. Hopefully demolition will happen within the next week or so.

mpd618

07-15-2011, 01:24 AM

There was a lot of activity out front of the site today. Hopefully demolition will happen within the next week or so.

Demolition application is going to City Council on Monday night.

benjaminbach

07-15-2011, 06:38 AM

Demolition application is going to City Council on Monday night.

:RpS_thumbup:

Greg Moore

07-15-2011, 11:51 AM

This week hydro was trimming and removing trees and moving the poles off the newly paved street where 144 Park will be. There is still some work to be done before the hydro is completely done there.

I am disappointed we aren't burying hydro lines during street reconstruction. Areas without hydro poles look so much nicer.

bzmwillemsen

07-15-2011, 12:36 PM

Blahhh

07-15-2011, 01:08 PM

Agreed, and especially when you're going to be building such a nice building.

Hi all - not sure if this was mentioned already, but I spoke with 144 Park sales centre yesterday - expected date of completion is summer/fall of 2013.........................i felt like somebody punched me in the gut when i heard that. I was truly hoping by the end of 2012 latest...

Oliver.Ashton@Remax.net

07-28-2011, 01:09 PM

Recently received an update letter. In a nutshell the Three (3) homes on Park were approved for demo and the Presentation center will be closed as of today. They will re-open mid-September at their new location in the Bauer Lofts.

The site plan has been approved and they are expecting a Foundation permit mid-August.
Currently the design of the second tower is ongoing and they expect to make an informal presentation sometime in August.

All very exciting news for UpTowns next landmark project.

RangersFan

07-28-2011, 03:29 PM

brocks

08-03-2011, 10:40 AM

I will believe it when the spade (or wrecking crane) digs in.:RpS_laugh:

ruud

08-26-2011, 03:03 PM

You're prediction seems to be ringing true. The way this project is going it might be next spring before we see a crane onsite.

I remember going into the sales office May 2010 and the staff assured us they would be building by the fall (of 2010)... ahhh, those were the days :RpS_sad:

Slippery Pete

08-27-2011, 04:04 PM

I work for a local subcontractor as an estimator and we are putting in a bid for part of the work on 144 Park. Bids are due on Sept 1st for general contractors so if the job comes in at the right price we could see construction starting fairly soon! :RpS_thumbup:

BuildingScout

08-28-2011, 06:52 PM

myfaceisonfire

09-02-2011, 01:35 PM

Noticed that all 3 of the houses along Park St were demolished this morning.

UrbanWaterloo

09-02-2011, 07:39 PM

Exciting to see action on the site. :RpS_cool:

September 2, 2011

http://wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Waterloo/Uptown/144%20Park/144%20Park%20-%20September%202,%202011%20-%201%20R.jpg

http://wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Waterloo/Uptown/144%20Park/144%20Park%20-%20September%202,%202011%20-%202%20R.jpg

iheartcondos

09-03-2011, 12:05 AM

So last time I was in, they told me demolition/construction would take place starting SEPT 1....Has anyone seen if they are actually doing anything? Waiting for this to become reality, but condo projects seem to be plagued by delays.

iheartcondos

09-03-2011, 12:06 AM

Nevermind, helps if I read the last post.....VERY exciting!!!!

brocks

09-07-2011, 10:08 AM

Any up-to-dadte words regarding the new presentation centre's opening in the Bauer Lofts.

Has the informal intrduction of the second tower taken place? If yes or no, does anyone have iforamtion they can share with the community? :RpS_rolleyes:

metropolis

09-07-2011, 10:56 AM

I would imagine that if the second phase is in fact planned construction on the first phase as was originally proposed cannot start. The second phase is to combine the podium of both phases into one large parking structure (housed behind the townhomes) and as proposed the back of the parking structure runs along the existing Iron Horse Trail on an unusual angle. With this significant change to the base of the strucutre I just cannot see construction starting until Phase 2 is approved.

Greg Moore

09-07-2011, 12:55 PM

myfaceisonfire

09-07-2011, 03:10 PM

The new presentation center will be in the commercial space of the Bauer complex. I noticed the other day that the store that sells baby goods is mostly empty now. I assume that is where the new presentation center will be.

Strange...I was there last Friday and they looked as full as ever. When did you see that they were emptying out? It would be sad to see them close up shop.

Uptowner

09-07-2011, 05:58 PM

Caesar's Closet was emptied. Stork is still full of baby goodies.

Greg Moore

09-08-2011, 01:36 PM

Caesar's Closet was emptied. Stork is still full of baby goodies.Okay. That makes sense. I don't. :)

Good neighbour

09-18-2011, 11:10 PM

Now that the houses have been demolished, those hydro wires really stick out. Are they staying? Won't they be right in the face of everyone from about the 5th floor down?

ruud

09-19-2011, 08:00 AM

If I'm not mistaken they are actually new. They widened the road and the old hydro poles, which ended up being a foot away from the sidewalk in the road itself, were removed.

mpd618

09-19-2011, 09:06 AM

See, the overhead hydro wires are part of Waterloo's strategy to retain its small-town feel.

metropolis

09-19-2011, 09:57 AM

See, the overhead hydro wires are part of Waterloo's strategy to retain its small-town feel.

Now that is funny :RpS_biggrin:

ruud

09-19-2011, 10:46 AM

...and what would the birds sit on?

I can't think of anything else and obviously our city planners could either! :RpS_rolleyes:

WaterlooNative

09-19-2011, 01:13 PM

See, the overhead hydro wires are part of Waterloo's strategy to retain its small-town feel.

I suspect it has more to do with the $1-million+/km cost to bury hydro lines. If the owners of 144 Park offered to pay to bury the wires I doubt that the City (or Region, since I believe Park is a Regional Road) would say no.

myfaceisonfire

09-19-2011, 01:37 PM

I suspect it has more to do with the $1-million+/km cost to bury hydro lines. If the owners of 144 Park offered to pay to bury the wires I doubt that the City (or Region, since I believe Park is a Regional Road) would say no.

How does that compare to the cost to build them above ground? I'm also guessing that the fact that the road they would be buried under was already dug up would lower the cost significantly.

mpd618

09-19-2011, 04:22 PM

I suspect it has more to do with the $1-million+/km cost to bury hydro lines. If the owners of 144 Park offered to pay to bury the wires I doubt that the City (or Region, since I believe Park is a Regional Road) would say no.A city with an urban vision for itself might well be forcing new development to pay for burying hydro wires on reconstructed streets.

insider

09-19-2011, 06:33 PM

A city with an urban vision for itself might well be forcing new development to pay for burying hydro wires on reconstructed streets.

Since when is Waterloo a city with an urban vision? It's actually a city with a small town vision.

bcwessel

09-19-2011, 06:42 PM

Since when is Waterloo a city with an urban vision? It's actually a city with a small town vision.

I would argue that most small towns (at least the ones retaining their "small town" characteristics) are in fact vastly more urban than most of the rest of our built environments. In fact, the urban typology is embedded right in your description: small town.

Also, welcome to the forum!

mpd618

09-22-2011, 04:37 PM

WaterlooNative

09-22-2011, 11:03 PM

Though it seems Mady Corp. wanted to present their plan for an expanded 144 Park development and re-aligned Iron Horse Trail over a month ago, they will nevertheless be presenting it at Monday's Waterloo City Council meeting. There's not much in the way of detail in the council packet (http://www.waterloo.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/CS_CLERKS_Minutes_2011/20110926_Packet_Council_Meeting.pdf).

Does anyone know what tower 2 might look like? As well, where would the IHT be redirected? I hope it's not left wedged between the back of the Sunlife Parking garage and another concrete wall. Would it be too much to hope for a concourse like what exists between the two Bauer buildings?

insider

09-23-2011, 10:44 PM

Does anyone know what tower 2 might look like? As well, where would the IHT be redirected? I hope it's not left wedged between the back of the Sunlife Parking garage and another concrete wall. Would it be too much to hope for a concourse like what exists between the two Bauer buildings?

It's pretty much the exact same as phase 1, just mirrored. No concourse, the 2 podiums will become 1 (parking will be connected).

RangersFan

09-24-2011, 11:38 AM

Does that mean they intended to build both towers together? or they will be attached at a later date?

dpks

09-25-2011, 01:20 AM

FYI, Caesar's Closet moved out of the retail side of the Bauer Buildings, and there are now signs up on their windows that say "144Park Presentation Centre Coming Soon".

panamaniac

09-25-2011, 09:56 AM

Anyone know if Caesar's Closet has gone out of business or is it moving to another location?

insider

09-25-2011, 09:59 AM

Does that mean they intended to build both towers together? or they will be attached at a later date?

I don't think they ever intended to build them together, when phase 2 is finished there will be just one podium with all the parking and townhouses for both towers

WatDot

09-27-2011, 09:06 AM

Developer wants to move part of Iron Horse trail

WATERLOO — Waterloo council has been asked to move about 100 metres of the popular Iron Horse trail, to help a developer build a twin condominium tower at Park and Allen streets in central Waterloo. Charles Mady made the pitch for a land swap Monday, saying the city-owned trail would bisect the 19-storey towers in a difficult way if not relocated toward the edge of the property. Council agreed to consider the proposal after a review that will include a public meeting. Mady Development Corp. expects to complete its first tower in 2013 and hopes to add a second tower in a development worth $120 million.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/600574--developer-wants-to-move-part-of-iron-horse-trail

metropolis

09-27-2011, 09:17 AM

Did anyone attend the council meeting? Was anything more made public?

UrbanWaterloo

09-27-2011, 12:39 PM

Yes I attended, sorry for the poor image quality. As previously mentioned, Mady is proposing to build twin towers worth $120-million. The Iron Horse Trail would be relocated to the John Street side of the property. The developer envisions an "Art Walk", which I thought looked amazing. The only concern mentioned was for cyclists, as the new trail has a lingering/leisurely feel as opposed to a straight bike path. Mady appreciated the feedback and promised to make sure cyclists are better taken care of in future designs. There will be a public meeting on the trail before the land is swapped.

City Council Presentation - September 26, 2011

http://wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Waterloo/Uptown/144%20Park/144%20Park,%20Waterloo%20-%20City%20Council%20Presentation%20-%20September%2026,%202011%20-%201%20R.jpg

Relocated Iron Horse Trail on the Right
http://wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Waterloo/Uptown/144%20Park/144%20Park,%20Waterloo%20-%20City%20Council%20Presentation%20-%20September%2026,%202011%20-%202%20R.jpg

"Art Walk" relocated Iron Horse Trail
http://wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Developments/Waterloo/Uptown/144%20Park/144%20Park,%20Waterloo%20-%20City%20Council%20Presentation%20-%20September%2026,%202011%20-%203%20R.jpg

Required Approvals

City Council to provide direction to relocate portion of Iron Horse Trail (tonight)
Enter into agreement with City of Waterloo to exchange lands and move Iron Horse Trail
City of Waterloo Official Plan and Zoning By-Law Amendments to implement site-specific development proposal

Economic Benefits

324 Man Years of Construction Employment
$60,000,000 will be spent locally on building materials
Over $5,000,000 in development charges
Over $2,600,000 in property taxes every year

ruud

09-27-2011, 01:10 PM

Looks okay - the Caroline St side is a complete waste though. With Vincenzo's and the entrance to the Bauer shops so close you could easily create something special there. The developer should redesign and integrate some some retail and restaurant space with access to a great patio area. They could probably accomplish that by using just half of that side.

markster

09-27-2011, 03:10 PM

The Caroline St side is rather hilarious, with the large bay 'windows' looking into the depths of the parking garage.
On the upside, that design lends well towards eventual conversion of some of that garage space to retail, as it interfaces with the sidewalk fairly well. You would just need to wall off some of the garage, and install some electricity/plumbing.

In the meantime, all the people who need to drive to Vincenzo's will be able to see the nice large parking garage, and be able to park.

I'm curious to see how the IHT redirection goes. There's pain points in the current routing, so there's room for improvement, but it could go either way.

urbangeographer

09-27-2011, 06:26 PM

so, that podium looks awfully large... will it contain just the lobbies, and the towns or will there be something else in all that space..... there will be underground parking right?

benjaminbach

09-27-2011, 06:38 PM

so, that podium looks awfully large... will it contain just the lobbies, and the towns or will there be something else in all that space..... there will be underground parking right?

The exterior of the podium surrounds the parking garage which is above ground

mpd618

09-27-2011, 07:36 PM

Trogdor

09-28-2011, 08:26 AM

Uh... that would make the entire section of the Iron Horse Trail between John and Caroline Streets pointless. You have to cross Park Street without an intersection only to then just go straight across to Caroline? And then be emptied out onto a street with no multi-use trail or anything? Great connectivity there.

To be fair, that's not much different than the setup now. Currently, you cross at Park without an intersection and then cross at Allen to continue along Caroline. All I see now is that you are forced to go around the condo instead of diagonally through the block as before. As for being dumped on Caroline, I'm *assuming* Mady will continue the trail along Caroline to connect with the existing path across Allen. So it's a bit more inconvenient, but I'll live with it to see this development go through.

metropolis

09-28-2011, 10:30 AM

Yes I attended, sorry for the poor image quality. As previously mentioned, Mady is proposing to build twin towers worth $120-million. The Iron Horse Trail would be relocated to the John Street side of the property. The developer envisions an "Art Walk", which I thought looked amazing. The only concern mentioned was for cyclists, as the new trail has a lingering/leisurely feel as opposed to a straight bike path. Mady appreciated the feedback and promised to make sure cyclists are better taken care of in future designs. There will be a public meeting on the trail before the land is swapped.

I am disappointed in this design though not in the way I feared I would be as the trail rerouting is superior to what I had envisioned. In doing this however, Mady should be forced to continue the paved trail that runs along Caroline between William and Allen to the new extension.

The parking along Caroline is inexcusable however. I understand the need to minimize loss of parking space but there should be small shops along that stretch of road. If Mady is not interested in property management on this site then they should sell those units as if they are condos. This is the portion I am most unimpressed with.

UrbanWaterloo, what is that large grey opening in the podium along Park? I can't make heads or tails of it from the image.

mpd618

09-28-2011, 10:56 AM

As for being dumped on Caroline, I'm *assuming* Mady will continue the trail along Caroline to connect with the existing path across Allen.

And I'm assuming they want to do what's shown in the render - which is nothing more than a sidewalk there.

WatDot

09-28-2011, 11:23 AM

This is an amazing development for Waterloo. I agree with a number of the posts here though in respect to the Caroline Street side. There is already pedestrian traffic along this part of the street because of Vincenzo's and the entrance to other businesses in the Bauer development. Small space retail and/or residential units would add to the streetscape/community and most importantly add to the appeal of this development. A convenience store for example would do very well in this spot. After 9pm, all retail in this immediate area is closed. Your closest convenience store would be further up on King in the heart of Uptown, or south to 7-11 past Central Meat market almost downtown Kitchener.

Trogdor

09-28-2011, 11:47 AM

And I'm assuming they want to do what's shown in the render - which is nothing more than a sidewalk there.

You could be right. I thought there was a bike lane added on Caroline, but the render is pretty fuzzy and on second glance it could definitely just be regular road. I'd be pretty shocked if they didn't connect the trails though...that would be pretty bad!