70 King St North, Waterloo

[Dhussey]

70 King Street North
City of Waterloo

Evening Everyone,

I was hoping to start the discussion about the proposed sale of 70 King St. North, Waterloo, the Canada Post Office on the corner of King St. N and Bridgeport E. This is a landmark property in Uptown Waterloo in terms of location, size and potential for development.

The CBRE link to the property listing is below:
http://bit.ly/w1y3c7

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=70+King+Street+North,+Waterloo,+Ontario&hl=en&ll=43.466438,-80.522125&spn=0.004509,0.009645&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=32.914483,79.013672&vpsrc=6&hnear=70+King+St+N,+Waterloo,+Ontario+N2J+2X2&t=h&z=17

[Drake]

It would help to know what the price of the building is. I find it odd that a publicly owned building is for sale, but the asking price isn't listed.

[Dhussey]

According to the pdf flyer attached to the listing more information can be found in the confidential information memorandum, which leads me to believe that unless confidentiality is broken the general public wont know the price.

Link to pdf below:
http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/D/0/0/D00467E0-E213-4D76-B73A-81A66488E852.pdf

[insider]

It seems rare that such a high profile site like this is being sold this openly. Considering its great potential I would expect developers lining up for such an opportunity.

[jcraig138]

The property is being sold on a best bid process. They are hoping that the strong demand for the property will push the price higher with the competitive environment. This will also speed up the sale process as the buyers will be forced to complete their due diligence on an accelerate timeline to be the winning bid. No doubt there will be a long line of potential buyers for this property.

[ViewFromThe42]

I'm curious what the different bidders view the intended use as. I had previously heard mixed use with a pay parking garage component. The latter could either deaden and hurt those blocks, or else help them if done properly and harmoniously.

[Dhussey]

I'm curious what the different bidders view the intended use as. I had previously heard mixed use with a pay parking garage component. The latter could either deaden and hurt those blocks, or else help them if done properly and harmoniously.

I find this very troubling. We have enough parking Uptown. Creating more parking at this development will not help encourage people to take transit to Uptown (LRT) but just make it easier to drive to Uptown. I know this parking lot was used as "after-hours" parking to Uptown goers but now all parking in this lot has been blocked off. And I have yet to hear any complaints about lack of Uptown parking (will still have the Shops and the Parking garage). Could we flirt with the idea of creating a mixed use development that discourages cars. It seems quite logical that this development could theoretically be create with NO Parking or significantly reduced parking (amending the zoning and bylaw requirements).

[planningthatplannyplan]

My hope would be that a parking structure, if part of this development, would lead to a loss of surface parking in Uptown on other sites, thus creating opportunities for more development sites. Anyone want to see some large surface parking lots sold for office development? The employees that do drive (lets hope a bunch take LRT) would have to park somewhere. Why not in a parking structure?

[bcwessel]

My hope would be that a parking structure, if part of this development, would lead to a loss of surface parking in Uptown on other sites, thus creating opportunities for more development sites. Anyone want to see some large surface parking lots sold for office development? The employees that do drive (lets hope a bunch take LRT) would have to park somewhere. Why not in a parking structure?

On one condition: any structured parking be designed with adaptive reuse in mind, making conversion into other, more urban, more productive uses at a later date easy, cheap, fast and considerably less wasteful than starting from scratch.

[jcraig138]

I have heard that there were 10 offers on the property with a number of them not really considered "real" as they were way too low in price. The Seller should be short listing the top 3 bidders in the next week or so to let the final bidders battle it out. The buyer will have to go the maximum density for the sale price to make sense based on the numbers I have heard.

[planningthatplannyplan]

I have heard that there were 10 offers on the property with a number of them not really considered "real" as they were way too low in price. The Seller should be short listing the top 3 bidders in the next week or so to let the final bidders battle it out. The buyer will have to go the maximum density for the sale price to make sense based on the numbers I have heard.

Student housing maximum density or condo maximum density? I think it would be a shame if this highly visible gets developed with an overly bulky EFIS student housing tower!

[Dhussey]

On one condition: any structured parking be designed with adaptive reuse in mind, making conversion into other, more urban, more productive uses at a later date easy, cheap, fast and considerably less wasteful than starting from scratch.

Brilliant idea, I couldn't agree with you more.

[ViewFromThe42]

That would be an even more important thing for 144 Park. Considering the location, right next to LRT, they should be the most likely place for parking to be converted to better uses.

[bcwessel]

Brilliant idea, I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm absolutely certain it's not mine, but I can't quite remember where I saw it first. If I can track down the source, I'll pass it along so the rightful owner can receive the credit she's due.

I think it could be a useful way to negotiate between the developer's need to build to the current situation (sometimes defined by the market; I suspect more often by the city's antiquated regulation of parking minimums), and the community's need for longterm strategies that support future needs and goals for value-creating, genuinely urban, genuinely transit-oriented environments.

[benjaminbach]

As per signage on site, this property is under contract.

[ViewFromThe42]

As per signage on site, this property is under contract.

For the uninitiated, what does it mean that the property is "under contract," and do you have any thoughts on this particular property's situation as compared to an average under contract property?

[benjaminbach]

For the uninitiated, what does it mean that the property is "under contract," and do you have any thoughts on this particular property's situation as compared to an average under contract property?

It means that there is an accepted offer on a property, but the acquisition has not yet closed (been completed). Generally it denotes that the offer is subject to due diligence conditions and is not yet "firm"


(I am not associated with the listing brokerage; these are just my general thoughts, not comments on the state of any offers on this property.)

[BigCityBoy]

The site is now under-going site sampling in both parking lots.

[metropolis]

Rumour has it that Melloull Blamey Construction was the highest bidder for this property.

Their two most recent projects (328 Regina Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_Regina_Street.asp)and 315 King Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_King_Street.asp)) are less than liked around here.

Let's hope that their project for this important block is more like this (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/enermodalengineering.asp?_mid_=14105).

Something tells me though we won't see citizen engagement (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php?t=889&page=5&p=29058#post29058)like we have courtesy of Fusion Homes for their downtown edge Kitchener property.

[Waterlooian4Life]

Rumour has it that Melloull Blamey Construction was the highest bidder for this property.

Their two most recent projects (328 Regina Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_Regina_Street.asp)and 315 King Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_King_Street.asp)) are less than liked around here.

Let's hope that their project for this important block is more like this (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/enermodalengineering.asp?_mid_=14105).

Something tells me though we won't see citizen engagement (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php?t=889&page=5&p=29058#post29058)like we have courtesy of Fusion Homes for their downtown edge Kitchener property.

Just So you are aware, Melloul Blamey was not the owner of the designer for the either 328 Regina Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_Regina_Street.asp)and 315 King Street (http://www.melloul.com/en/projects/JD_King_Street.asp) they were simply the contractor who bid on drawing to do the construction. Simply doing what they were told to do. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge if they in fact were the highest bidder for the property vs. being the contractor on the property. The Work that a contractor does is only as good as the Owner who mandates it and the Architect who designs it at the will of the owner. Melloul Blamey has done some fantastic work in this community and some pretty shitty work yes, but as an owner the product could be a very different story.