General Retail News

[UrbanWaterloo]

General Retail News
A thread for general retail news in Waterloo Region

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Shopping-Bag_256.png (http://mattbango.com/notebook/freebies/free-shopping-bag-icon/)

[UrbanWaterloo]

The Shops at Waterloo Town Square - January 15, 2010

Tadpole's New Location @ 95 King Street South on Willis Way - Unit C102
Website: http://www.tadpoleshoppe.com/
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-Tadpole-January152010-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-Tadpole-January152010-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-Tadpole-January152010-3.jpg

Eve Chocolatier @ 75 King Street South (replaced Tadpole) - Unit 58
Website: www.evechocolatier.com
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-EveChocolatier-January152010-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-EveChocolatier-January152010-1.jpg

Exclusive Elements @ 75 King Street South (beside Valu-Mart) - Unit 28B
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WTS-ExclusiveElements-January152010.jpg

[Spokes]

"Out of the Past" which was located on 100 Queen St. South is moving their location to 10 King St. East. The location is where Les Fleurs used to be. Another Queen st business moving to King. Glad to see vacancies filling up on King. Hurts Queen a bit though.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

The Office Depot on Weber Street in Waterloo will be closing on January 30. Most items in the store are 50% off until the end of the month - including furniture and electronics.

There were signs up on the doors. It doesn't look as if they will be relocating. This is unfortunate, as I preferred Office Depot over Staples. Now there really is no alternative for office supplies and stationery in Waterloo Region with Basics and Grand & Toy gone now as well...:(

[Spokes]

Laurier Optical will be moving into the empty space beside Shoppers Drug Mart at 260 King st West.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

HMV in the University Shops Plaza is permanently closing this Saturday, February 13. The Waterloo location will be replaced by a new store at Conestoga Mall some time in the late spring.

[Spokes]

Thats definitely too bad. While the whole plaza thing wasn't the best land use, it did provide some street side retail. Unfortunately, one more shop is headed to a mall.

[WatDot]

HMV in the University Shops Plaza is permanently closing this Saturday, February 13. The Waterloo location will be replaced by a new store at Conestoga Mall some time in the late spring.

That sucks, but the space will be snapped up in second.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

That sucks, but the space will be snapped up in second.

A McDonalds would just rake in the cash at that location - especially if it stayed open 24 hrs on weekends to catch the after bar/club grease fix. The unit is a good size for a McDonalds too. I mean, have you ever seen how insane the drive-thru line is at the Columbia St McDonalds at 2:00 am on a Saturday? Just a thought...

[urbandreamer]

When does the American Apparel open in Uptown?

[jay]

Soon. I was looking into the window yesterday and the flooring, lights, drywall is in.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Ray Delions Mens Clothiers Store at Westmount Place is closing. All inventory is being liquidated at 50% off. The sale continues until everything is gone. I think the owner is retiring.

This is really too bad. I liked this store, and they had great service. It was independently and locally owned. If I can recall, it was one of the only stores locally that sold Lacoste for men.

[Greg Moore]

Ray Delions Mens Clothiers Store at Westmount Place is closing. All inventory is being liquidated at 50% off. The sale continues until everything is gone. I think the owner is retiring.

I went yesterday to check out the deals. It's locked up and there is a notice of failure to pay rent.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

I went yesterday to check out the deals. It's locked up and there is a notice of failure to pay rent.

That's weird. I saw an ad on the back page of the local section of The Record yesterday for the store closing sale. I heard that they might be closing about a month ago. I was going to maybe stop by today to see if there were any deals, but I guess not anymore! Thanks for saving me the trip! :p

[Shawn]

I wonder if we can look forward to seeing the remaining stock show up in the local WINNERS store once it's liquidated?

[uptownfoodcritic]

Ray Delion's has been closed for several months now. Perhaps the landlord is having a liquidation sale on a specific day but the actual store has been closed for a while.

[mindset]

Soon. I was looking into the window yesterday and the flooring, lights, drywall is in.

American Apparel is supposed to be opening March 18th (same as the Conestoga Mall H&M). Hardwood flooring is in and vinyl signage is up.

Apparently 2010 is going to be a big year for Waterloo retail -- there have been rumours of Zara and Forever21 opening up in the mall. Urban Outfitters is supposedly interested in opening around here, too.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

American Apparel is supposed to be opening March 18th (same as the Conestoga Mall H&M). Hardwood flooring is in and vinyl signage is up.

Apparently 2010 is going to be a big year for Waterloo retail -- there have been rumours of Zara and Forever21 opening up in the mall. Urban Outfitters is supposedly interested in opening around here, too.

It's only time before Lululemon opens too. Just a matter of where.

[Spokes]

It'd be nice if 2010 became a big year for retail in the core as well. Lots of retail heading to the malls. I guess they'll have to fill up at some point.

[UrbanWaterloo]

Laurier Optical (260 King Street West) - March 11, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/LaurierOptical-260KingStreetWest-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/LaurierOptical-260KingStreetWest-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/LaurierOptical-260KingStreetWest-Ma.jpg

[Spokes]

Good looking retail spot! They've done a really good job making this look good. It's too bad its next to so many vacant store fronts.

[jay]

The nightmare of Eatons lofts...

[mpd618]

The nightmare of Eatons lofts...

It's funny how Eaton's can hurt the city even after it's long gone.

[Spokes]

Does anyone know what the status of this is? Is the court case ongoing?

[UrbanWaterloo]

Your Neighbourhood Credit Union
General Meeting report to the members Download (http://www.yncu.com/Documents/YNCU-AGM-Nwsltr-2010-Web.pdf)
And coming in Spring 2010...
Waterloo Crossing Plaza (Erb and Ira Needles)

[RangersFan]

It's too bad about the whole Eaton's Lofts controversy/lawsuit whatever because the units from the outside look pretty nice, but not even the eatonslofts.com is up and running anymore.

[jay]

They are nice lofts. One is on MLS right now and another one was on awhile ago being sold though Power of Sale. If and when it does get finished it has street front retail and underground parking. The u/g parking is a huge plus.

[Spokes]

What was the plan? How would they do the UG parking? What's the lawsuit about? Sorry lots of questions.

Id love to see the store fronts changed too. The windows are so low, they could really open them up. Also, get rid of the brown stucco finish. Not attractive at all.

[jay]

The building always had u/g parking from what I know. My buddy told me he used to work there for a tech company and they had u/g parking.

The lawsuits from what I know is because the developer was messing around and not finishing things, and then the people moved in and then the City Of Kitchener said the building was unsafe and a bunch of things happened that led to a 50 million dollar lawsuit against the developer. From what I know the tenants don't have a Tarion warranty because the building is considered a renovation and not new construction. The builder doesn't want to finish the building because they think the City and the tenants are being unreasonable, hence, the lawsuit.

I'm not surprised this happened, but I am surprised the builder got so hard about it and didn't finish it. You have to watch yourself buying conversion property's due to the laws involved. The simple fact is that developers and builders are in this for a profit and at the end of the day it's business and shit happens.

There's issues at Bauer that are being taken care of only because if the builder doesn't they will get fined and will have to pay for it anyways though Tarion. The owners at Bauer have that insurance, that the people at Eatons don't. That's the difference between new construction and conversions.

[RangersFan]

Budds makes changes to keep up with the times
March 17, 2010
By Chuck Howitt, Record staff

KITCHENER — Downtown Kitchener’s only department store is undergoing a remake of sorts.

Budds is shutting down its children’s clothing department in the basement and replacing it with men’s and women’s higher-end designer clothing sold at discount prices.

The new section will sell only “top name-brand merchandise,” in-season at 40 to 80 per cent off the original retail price, co-owner Howie Budd said today.

To be called the Red Bag Centre, it will sell brands such as Haggar, Point Zero, Tan Jay, Alia, Bill Blass, McGregor, Stanfields and J. Braxx.

The new format, which debuts Monday, is also being introduced at Budds’ stores in Guelph and Simcoe.

Business has been stronger in men’s and women’s clothing and the company’s buyer of children’s wear is retiring, said Howie’s brother Stan Budd, also a co-owner of the three-store chain.

“We had to make a decision. We’re changing with the times,” he said.

They’ve been pondering the move for some time,” Stan said. “For a couple of seasons, we’ve tested the waters. The results have been very satisfactory.”

Budds will continue to sell its regular lines of boy’s, men’s and women’s clothing and accessories on the main floor and bed and bath merchandise on the second floor. Girl’s apparel is also being phased out.

Founded by Howie and Stan’s father Nat and three uncles, the 15,000-square-foot store has been a fixture at 165 King St. W. near Kitchener City Hall for 84 years. It still features pneumatic suction tubes that send cash transactions to the upstairs office.

The Guelph and Simcoe stores are more than 75 years old.

Howie said the makeover “is a vote of confidence in downtown Kitchener.” More people are walking the streets in the core and more young people are coming into the store, he said.

“We’ve added new lines to accommodate the new customers we see working and living downtown.”

With more than 40 years in the business, the two veteran haberdashers have no plans to retire anytime soon. They have a succession plan in place and have brought Howie’s son, Jeff, into the business.

“We still love our work. We still feel young and interested,” Howie said.

chowitt@therecord.com

[Spokes]

Good for them! Glad they're doing what they can to keep up with things. Hopefully they can market this well to draw people downtown as well as help themselves from a business perspective.

[UrbanWaterloo]

I'm happy to see Budds improving their product mix. I haven't got clothes from them since a suit for my uncle's wedding and that's when I was 4 or 5. :p Every time I go they don't have slim fitting ("euro") shirts, so I'm hoping they'll carry a few now. Hopefully they'll do a store renovation as well, I keep trying to put "the bug" in their ears whenever I'm buying more general items: "Great sale on these pillows, it's too bad the store looks so dated though, if only you modernized it you might be able to attract a younger crowd...". It's the last of our local department stores, so it would be awesome if they could turn their decline around.

[Spokes]

It would definitely diversify their clientele. I think a facade improvement would help too, open it up, have it feel brighter. Facade improvement grant anyone?

[jay]

I've heard the Ikea to cambridge rumblings again.. Has anyone else?

[neonjoe]

Fencing is up around the old Linen's and Things at Sunrise centre looks like something is going in, maybe futureshop?
Green Kiwi replaced Booster Juice in that plaza as well.

[UrbanWaterloo]

Laura / Laura Petites, New Store Opening! Sunrise Centre - http://jobview.monster.ca/Laura-Laura-Petites-New-Store-Opening!-Sunrise-Centre-Job-Kitchener-ON-CA-85924044.aspx
Laura Canada is the destination for contemporary woman’s fashion. Established since 1930 we are a true Canadian success story, with a proud history. Laura Canada has grown from our first store in Montreal to over 145 locations across Canada and we are now coming to Kitchener, Ontario (Sunrise Shopping Centre). Our new Laura / Laura Petites store is scheduled to open in April 2010.

[CompassRose]

"We are now coming to Kitchener..."? Am I hallucinating the Laura stores which have been in Fairview Park Mall lo, these fifteen years or more?

[UrbanWaterloo]

Budds (165 King Street West) - March 29, 2010
I was going to take more photos but Howie Budd wants to check out WW first before I do.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/Budds-March292010-2b.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/Budds-March292010-3a.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/Budds-March292010-3b-1.jpg

[panamaniac]

Ahh Budd's - how I loved those pneumatic tubes that carried the cash when I was a kid (Goudie's had them too). I still make a point of dropping in and buying something when I am in town, just to offer some support to one of the few bits of the old downtown retail that is still hanging in there. Great deals on sheets and towels, by the way! I still shudder when I remember my mother taking me in to the boys department to look for "husky" sizes - mortifying!!

[UrbanWaterloo]

Great deals on sheets and towels, by the way!

Thanks for the commentary! I also try to support Budds when possible with sheets/towels: they remind me of a locally-owned version of Winners with the "Compare At" price (not a bad thing at all). They just need to: bring in more fashionable euro-style clothing; and as previously mentioned a facade renovation (perhaps all glass like The Museum). Do you know what Budds used to look like (what's under the siding)?

[Spokes]

Thanks for the commentary! I also try to support Budds when possible with sheets/towels: they remind me of a locally-owned version of Winners with the "Compare At" price (not a bad thing at all). They just need to: bring in more fashionable euro-style clothing; and as previously mentioned a facade renovation (perhaps all glass like The Museum). Do you know what Budds used to look like (what's under the siding)?

Red/Brown Brick

[panamaniac]

Red/Brown Brick

I think you are right, although it seems to me that the original facade was not drastically different from the more modern covering (i.e. not as much detail in the brickwork as some of the other old King St buildings). I recall thinking it was a big deal when the automatic elevators were installed inside (Geez, it's tough to admit I remember elevator attendants!). If anyone is not sure what I was referring to in a previous post when I mentioned the pneumatic tubes, go in some time and check it out - they still work.

The saddest "cover over", I always thought, was the (then) Waterloo Trust at King and Ontario, now demolished for the "Dolly Parton Building". That was a really lovely brick building that was covered over by a plain grey cement facade in the name of modernization. At least when that building came down they saved the historic murals that you can now see in the cafeteria of the Regional govt building on Frederick St.

[UrbanWaterloo]

Shoppers Downtown Kitchener (250 King Street West) is adding a postal outlet, scheduled to open April 8, 2010. It's going in the space where the photo area used to be. They aren't completely getting rid of photos just reducing it to one self-serve terminal.

March 31, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMar-5.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMar-4.jpg

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http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMart-M.jpg

[smably]

That is great news about the postal outlet in Shoppers. Downtown Kitchener still deserves a real post office (http://news.therecord.com/article/409234), but this is still a lot better than having to go way down to 618 King Street East to pick up a parcel.

[DHLawrence]

That is great news about the postal outlet in Shoppers. Downtown Kitchener still deserves a real post office (http://news.therecord.com/article/409234), but this is still a lot better than having to go way down to 618 King Street East to pick up a parcel.

Maybe they could renovate the old Shoppers location near Queen. It's certainly big enough. Or maybe the Public Utilities Building--it has the look of a post office. Or they could go really crazy and turf out the college in the old post office and put it back where it belongs!

[UrbanWaterloo]

I agree Downtown Kitchener deserves a larger central post office. The Public Utilities Building would work for this, however I have better plans for "The PUB" :p, which hopefully we can start working on next year as our WW group grows (turning this from a Voice for Change, into Change itself).

[Spokes]

Im happy to hear they're getting a postal outlet there. As nice as the photo centre was, they didn't need it to be as big as it was.

As for a bigger one downtown, with this and then one further up King street, is that needed? I wouldn't be opposed to it I just think there are other things they could be spending money/space on.

Waterloo on the other hand needs to do something to get Canada Post to move, theyre sitting on PRIME development land at King and Bridgeport.

[smably]

Waterloo on the other hand needs to do something to get Canada Post to move, theyre sitting on PRIME development land at King and Bridgeport.
Yes, this! The building there is an abomination. Low density, set back way too far from King Street, big blank wall facing Bridgeport, soulless architecture, and the ugliest chain-link-fenced parking lot for postal trucks you could imagine right next door. I'm not usually one to favour demolition, but for this building I say bring on the wrecking ball. It's one of the worst in Uptown.

[garthdanlor]

I'm no fan of the Uptown post office building (though I would like to se a proper post office somewhere in the Uptown) but, for me, the first biulding to be demolished should be the hideous Chainsaw. It is the worst building to be found in either Uptown or Downtown. Sad thing is that we walked Uptown for dinner & drinks today and Chainsaw was probably the busiest business at the time...nasty place!!

[Spokes]

Ya I hear ya, but if I had to choose Id say loose the post office. At least Chainsaw, like you said, was busy. The Post Office doesn't serve much of a purpose as far as Uptown goes.

I've wondered though, since it's federally owned property, how does that work in terms of a developer getting it's hands on the land?

[uptownfoodcritic]

I know of several developers who have offered to buy the building and lot and to provide Canada Post with other land outside the core to build a new facility on.

Canada Post is not interested in moving apparently as they have all been rejected.

[Spokes]

Thats ridiculous. As far as what they do out of that location, why is it so important to be in the core?

[UrbanWaterloo]

250 King Street West, Kitchener (Shoppers Drug Mart) - April 6, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMar-7.jpg

Remaining Self-Serve Photo Terminal
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMar-6.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/250KingStreetWestShoppersDrugMart-A.jpg

[RangersFan]

Local group looks at new downtown Kitchener retail strategy
By Melinda Dalton, Record staff
April 10, 2010 - http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/696478

http://media.therecord.topscms.com/images/42/fb/3173bd21492d87990fdc20e8b4d8.jpeg
Retail recruiter Erin Young in front of one of several empty storefronts along King Street East that her group hopes to fill.

KITCHENER — There’s a delicate balance to strike when trying to breathe new commercial life into a downtown. Too much too early and you risk stringing out small business owners. Too little too late and you leave core residents trekking to the suburbs for their goods.

It’s that delicate balance of perfect timing and the right business mix that the Downtown Kitchener Business Improvement Area is looking to achieve with its vision for the future of downtown retail.

The group is in the preliminary stages of developing a new downtown retail attraction strategy, aimed at filling empty holes in the city’s core with unique and traffic-driving shops.

“There’s a lot of focus right now on big development downtown, but not a lot of focus on small retail,” said Erin Young, co-owner of the King Street clothing store Inception and the Business Improvement Area’s new retail recruiter.

The city does have a long-term strategy for business in the core, but work on securing and completing major core projects — like the King Street streetscaping, the consolidated courthouse, Centre Block, the Tannery and the Arrow Lofts — has been at the forefront recently.

Kitchener currently offers grants to downtown businesses that want to improve their facades, a program which more than a dozen owners have taken advantage of already. Rod Regier, the city’s executive director of economic development, said the city is working closely with BIA and the businesses as the revitalization efforts in the core progress.

For small business owners, the clean up of the core has gone a long way to create a more inviting space. Filling empty store fronts is the next frontier to tackle.

“Without some competition or options for people to shop at other places, you really are a bit of a destination and could be anywhere,” Young said. “If we can kind of help bring this forward a bit and augment it, that’s great ... It’s going to take some time and we’re just getting started, but it was more about getting it on the radar and think about how we get more shops.”

The Business Improvement Area started gathering information on retail attraction more than a year ago.

With half of the streetscaping now complete and with competition emerging in the form of new power centre development in the Ira Needles area, now seemed to be the time to get the strategy moving, said Business Improvement Area executive director, Mark Garner.

They’re now working with Manhattan-based retail consultant, Michael Berne, who has advised similar groups across North America on how to attract new business and new demographics of shoppers.

While the plans are still in their infancy, the hope is to bring in businesses that keep core dwellers downtown for all their shopping needs and draw in suburban folks with one of a kind shops.

That could mean looking at bringing in the conveniences people want — like a grocery store or a movie theatre — accented by the urban feel inherent to the downtown.

That could also include what Berne calls “chainlets”, small businesses that have expanded to multiple locations. A local example of that would be the Cake Box, the King Street cakery that recently opened a second location in St. Jacobs, Garner said.

They’re looking at unique chains that have a handful shops across Ontario, not stores that have 150 locations across the country, Young said.

It’s too early to name names just yet, she said, but already they’re looking to areas like Queen Street West in Toronto and some of the more unique businesses in places like Stratford and London to see if they’d be a good fit here.

The Business Improvement Area can’t say just how many empty holes there are to fill in all of the core area. They’re in the process of creating an inventory so they can see the whole picture and know exactly what’s out there and where businesses would be best suited. They also want to gather input from the current core businesses, property owners and residents to find out just what downtown is missing.

Garner said the Business Improvement Area isn’t concerning itself too much with cleansing the long-held perceptions of downtown by some who live further afield. Those perceptions will change as more life moves in and word of mouth and online social media lend more credibility to the notion that downtown isn’t a place to be afraid of.

“Perception is like trying to contain water — you can’t,” he said. “It’s just going to go where it goes. So we want the people who are currently using to use their social networks to improve and communicate it.”

The attraction strategy is set over a six-year timeline, so both Garner and Young caution people shouldn’t expect to see storefronts packed in the near future. Ultimately, while bringing in more retail is the motivator, the goal isn’t to turn the downtown into another power centre, Garner said. It’s to grow it into a one-of-a-kind space with a vibe all its own.

“We’re the first people to say, it is what it is — gritty and unique,” said Garner. “It’s not high buffed and polished … It feels like a downtown.”

[Spokes]

That could mean looking at bringing in the conveniences people want — like a grocery store or a movie theatre — accented by the urban feel inherent to the downtown.


These two things should be at the top of the list for things to bring to the core. I think they'd most likely need to be a part of a bigger development though.

I'd like to see something like the World Exchange Plaza in Ottawa. It's got retail on the main floor accessable from both inside and outside, and from there an escallator that leads up to a movie theatre, and then offices above that. Outside it's got a public square/ampetheatre.


They’re looking at unique chains that have a handful shops across Ontario, not stores that have 150 locations across the country, Young said.

While Im not trying to revive the chain vs independent debate, I don't think they should be against the idea of chanins


They also want to gather input from the current core businesses, property owners and residents to find out just what downtown is missing.

Glad they're doing this. This is a good idea. They definitely need to be asking people what is missing.

[Spokes]

According to this Kijiji Ad (http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-housing-commercial-One-Commercial-Retail-front-in-Downtown-Kitchener-W0QQAdIdZ193757508) Tres Chic will be moving out of it's Duke St. location. Any details?

[TripleQ]

Does anyone know what's replacing the old Linen 'n Things at Sunrise?

[jay]

Future Shop apparently. They are moving the Gateway Park location.

[Spokes]

Wow, that's a major blow for the Gateway Park/Sportsworld area. I guess with having a location in Cambridge on Pinebush, one more central to Kitchener made sense.

[Urbanomicon]

Wow, that's a major blow for the Gateway Park/Sportsworld area. I guess with having a location in Cambridge on Pinebush, one more central to Kitchener made sense.


This doesn't surprise me at all. The Gateway Futureshop has been getting relatively little business since the Best Buy opened on Fairway.

Interestingly enough, a Best Buy is opening in the same mall as the Futureshop on Pinebush. We'll see if that location gets driven away too.

[Shawn]

Interestingly enough, a Best Buy is opening in the same mall as the Futureshop on Pinebush. We'll see if that location gets driven away too.

That surprises me they'd open in the SAME mall. They're both owned by Best Buy. I know they're trying to keep the illusion they're separate companies, but setting them up to compete head-to-head in the same mall doesn't seem to make sense. The only way I could see that move making sense is if they did it to keep a different competitor out of the mall, such as The Source by Circuit City, The Sony Store or 2001 Audio/Video etc.

[IEFBR14]

That surprises me they'd open in the SAME mall. They're both owned by Best Buy. I know they're trying to keep the illusion they're separate companies, but setting them up to compete head-to-head in the same mall doesn't seem to make sense.
Actually it can. It's similar to selling the same car under two different marks, both owned by the same maker, e.g. Chevrolet and Pontiac, or Ford and. Mercury. You create an illusion of competition. There may be some differences in style or features. One brand may be positioned as "better" than the other. But ultimately if you're GM you don't care if the customer buys a Chevy or a Pontiac as long as they don't buy a non-GM make.

With FS/BB, combined they have a large percentage of the total market. They'd love someone who had a bad experience at FS to take their business to a BB in protest instead of an AV2001 or The Source. Or someone who price matches a product they found in BB at a FS. Having both stores in the same mall makes that mall a "must" destination for computers and electronics. The increase in traffic more than makes up for any losses due to price competition. And as you say, it also makes it harder for an AV2001 to compete in the same location. Besides, the two chains carry somewhat different product lines. For instance, only FS carries major appliances.

BTW in a similar vein, a MEC store opening often attracts competition across or down the street, e.g. Europe Bound across from MEC in Toronto. This turns out to be symbiotic relationship where everyone wins because someone in Toronto who needs outdoor gear automatically heads to King St W simply because it's a one-stop experience. Again the vastly increased traffic more than makes up for having to split sales among several stores.

That said, I'm not aware of any current pairs of FS/BB in the same mall. Perhaps it's an experiment.

[Urbanomicon]

Actually it can. It's similar to selling the same car under two different marks, both owned by the same maker, e.g. Chevrolet and Pontiac, or Ford and. Mercury. You create an illusion of competition. There may be some differences in style or features. One brand may be positioned as "better" than the other. But ultimately if you're GM you don't care if the customer buys a Chevy or a Pontiac as long as they don't buy a non-GM make.

I'm still convinced that Coke and Pepsi are the same company. :)

[IEFBR14]

I'm still convinced that Coke and Pepsi are the same company. :)You mean they're not? :confused: :eek:

One more thought. I've seen competing department stores anchoring opposite ends of a mall. This not only allows the landlord to make money off both stores while keeping the competitors at a safe distance, it probably also drives up sales for all the other tenants. Imagine you need something that both department stores carry. You first look in store A, then head down the mall to store B to compare their offerings. As you make the long march you see similar items for sale at smaller boutiques and/or you see other stuff on sale that you hadn't gone shopping for. Regardless, you end up buying the item you came for somewhere in the mall. Maybe you also buy more stuff on impulse. (And the landlord wins every time because they get a percentage of all sales in the mall.)

So I could see a mall that's anchored by an FS at one end and a BB at the other. Maybe even a mall that carries only technology stuff. Would that be so far-fetched here in Silicon Valley North?

[Spokes]

That surprises me they'd open in the SAME mall. They're both owned by Best Buy. I know they're trying to keep the illusion they're separate companies, but setting them up to compete head-to-head in the same mall doesn't seem to make sense. The only way I could see that move making sense is if they did it to keep a different competitor out of the mall, such as The Source by Circuit City, The Sony Store or 2001 Audio/Video etc.

In addition to what others have said...

Don't be too surprised, they've done this in a lot of places. Their thinking might be that people are going to want to compare prices, so if they can have them compare at Best Buy or Future Shop (since they are next to eachother) rather than The Source by Circuit City, The Sony Store or 2001 Audio/Video etc. then it'll almost guarantee the purchase is made at Best buy or Future SHop.

Also, the competition factor is big. If it were one store and they had a monopoly of the market, people might not like that. Having it split between two stores allows one company to control a lot of the market while not seeming like it has a monopoly.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

That surprises me they'd open in the SAME mall. They're both owned by Best Buy. I know they're trying to keep the illusion they're separate companies, but setting them up to compete head-to-head in the same mall doesn't seem to make sense. The only way I could see that move making sense is if they did it to keep a different competitor out of the mall, such as The Source by Circuit City, The Sony Store or 2001 Audio/Video etc.




Interestingly enough, a Best Buy is opening in the same mall as the Futureshop on Pinebush. We'll see if that location gets driven away too.

FYI Everyone: There is a thread on "that mall" - the BridgeCam Centre here (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/197-BridgeCam-Power-Centre).


Also, I have heard rumours from a good source that there will be both a Future Shop and Best Buy at The Boardwalk - one of the stores will be in Waterloo and the other will be in Kitchener.

[Spokes]

FYI Everyone: There is a thread on "that mall" - the BridgeCam Centre here (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/197-BridgeCam-Power-Centre).


Also, I have heard rumours from a good source that there will be both a Future Shop and Best Buy at The Boardwalk - one of the stores will be in Waterloo and the other will be in Kitchener.

That's funny that they'll technically be in different cities

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

That said, I'm not aware of any current pairs of FS/BB in the same mall. Perhaps it's an experiment.

There are a few examples. Check this picture out from a power centre (not necessarily the same one though, but close!) in Ottawa from waterloowarrior on SSP:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/246749484_833537d053.jpg?v=0

[IEFBR14]

That's funny that they'll technically be in different citiesI wonder if there's any advantage for a tenant in the mall, not necessarily FS or BB, to choose to be in one city rather than the other. Property taxes?


There are a few examples...Thanks. Close is good enough. If I was looking for a new TV or computer I'd cross the road to compare prices. (Actually I'd open two browser tabs, one on each store's site ;))

That does seem to prove that the concept is not only viable but at least as profitable as having the two stores located some considerable distance apart.

[Spokes]

There are a few examples. Check this picture out from a power centre (not necessarily the same one though, but close!) in Ottawa from waterloowarrior on SSP:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/246749484_833537d053.jpg?v=0

This was the one that first came to mind when I mentioned that. I used to live right behind these and always thought it was a bit funny.

[Shawn]

Do you think it's generally a known fact that Future Shop is no longer an independent Canadian owned electronics store? Do people actually know they are owned by Best Buy? Perhaps Best Buy's strategy of keeping the Future Shop name (because originally they were going to re-brand all the FS stores to BB) is working for them. As you say, if the general public doesn't know any better, they would happily cross the street or parking lot to do price comparison.

If you've ever done price comparisons yourself between FS & BB stores on big ticket items (think flat screen TV's) you'll notice they rarely carry the exact same model #. Manufacturers will release the same product with different model numbers to their large distributors to help them combat the price matching that consumers can now much more easily do thanks to the internet. Price matching usually depends on the item being the exact same product, right down to the model number.

[Spokes]

Do you think it's generally a known fact that Future Shop is no longer an independent Canadian owned electronics store? Do people actually know they are owned by Best Buy? Perhaps Best Buy's strategy of keeping the Future Shop name (because originally they were going to re-brand all the FS stores to BB) is working for them. As you say, if the general public doesn't know any better, they would happily cross the street or parking lot to do price comparison.

I would say that the majority of people don't know they're the same.


If you've ever done price comparisons yourself between FS & BB stores on big ticket items (think flat screen TV's) you'll notice they rarely carry the exact same model #. Manufacturers will release the same product with different model numbers to their large distributors to help them combat the price matching that consumers can now much more easily do thanks to the internet. Price matching usually depends on the item being the exact same product, right down to the model number.

Ya I've noticed that too, they're usually a number off, or they add a letter onto the end. I always get a laugh out of that. Or the "different model" where the only difference is black vs. silver.

[TripleQ]

There are tones of Futureshops and Best Buys next to each other.. Heartland Mississauga, 403 & Dundas as a couple of examples.

I'm surprised they would put both at The Boardwalk though, especially if they are moving a FS to Sunrise. I would have guessed a Best Buy, but not FS.

[IEFBR14]

If you've ever done price comparisons yourself between FS & BB stores on big ticket items (think flat screen TV's) you'll notice they rarely carry the exact same model #. Manufacturers will release the same product with different model numbers to their large distributors to help them combat the price matching that consumers can now much more easily do thanks to the internet. Price matching usually depends on the item being the exact same product, right down to the model number.
All major chains play this game with model numbers. Some, like Wal-Mart and Sears, will even have model numbers that are unique to them.

But sometimes FS/BB do screw up and the same product is on sale at one but not the other chain. This can create a lucrative price matching opportunity on big ticket items. Remember FS/BB also pay 10% of the price difference.

For more than you'd ever want to know about this sort of stuff, see the forum at RedFlagDeals.com (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/).

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Do you think it's generally a known fact that Future Shop is no longer an independent Canadian owned electronics store? Do people actually know they are owned by Best Buy? Perhaps Best Buy's strategy of keeping the Future Shop name (because originally they were going to re-brand all the FS stores to BB) is working for them. As you say, if the general public doesn't know any better, they would happily cross the street or parking lot to do price comparison.


Best Buy has occasionally marketed in their commercials that their sales staff are non-commission, whereas Future Shop staff are on commission. Different strategies that work to the company's advantage in both stores, otherwise one of the two above-mentioned models of sales would've be selected for both stores by now.

[Greg Moore]

Best Buy has occasionally marketed in their commercials that their sales staff are non-commission, whereas Future Shop staff are on commission. Different strategies that work to the company's advantage in both stores, otherwise one of the two above-mentioned models of sales would've be selected for both stores by now.
Future Shop employees are no longer paid by commission.

[IEFBR14]

Future Shop employees are no longer paid by commission.
Are you sure? Or have they reversed their 2007 reversal?

Classes of Employees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shop#Classes_of_Employees)
Future Shop employees are separated into several classes. The commission-compensated sales force consists of "Product Experts". Non-commissioned salespeople (such as those in the Entertainment department) are referred to as "Sales Associates." ... In 2007 all "Sales Associates" were changed back into "Product Experts", to keep the brand distinction between Best Buy and Future Shop.

And considering how hard they push their high-margin PSP extended warranties it's hard to imagine that they don't get compensated for that in some way.

[neonjoe]

Small news, Sunoco at Strasburg and Ottawa is closed for conversion to a Petro Canada,
Pita factory is open at Alpine Plaza.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Small news, Sunoco at Strasburg and Ottawa is closed for conversion to a Petro Canada,


Along with a few others too: Columbia & Fischer-Hallman, Northfield & King, and I think Columbia & Phillip

[Spokes]

Along with a few others too: Columbia & Fischer-Hallman, Northfield & King, and I think Columbia & Phillip

I guess just the effects of the Suncor-PetroCan merger?

[IEFBR14]

Yes, although a huge waste of money at Columbia & Philip since they converted it from a GTO to Sunoco only a couple of years ago.

[Spokes]

Yes, although a huge waste of money at Columbia & Philip since they converted it from a GTO to Sunoco only a couple of years ago.

Same company there too so probably not a ton invested, but ya 3 different names in 2 or so years is odd

[panamaniac]

What have people been hearing about how Uptown businesses are doing? To my surprise, a longtime Uptown merchant told me the other week that things have been slow and that Waterloo Square has been suffering since the square was put in.

[IEFBR14]

To my surprise, a longtime Uptown merchant told me the other week that things have been slow and that Waterloo Square has been suffering since the square was put in.Correlation does not imply causation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation).

[taylortbb]

Things seem to be doing okay, rents are so high that some business have considered opening there have decided they can't (City Cafe Bakery) and others are moving downtown (Gloss). Yet all the storefronts are full.

The exception being the mall, which seems pretty dead, excepting the Valu-Mart. The public square has certainly hurt the mall, which I find to be absolutely ridiculous. Are the people of this region so fat and lazy they can't cross Willis Way to a gigantic parking lot with lots of free spaces? Sure, there's some people with mobility challenges (seniors, disabled) but there's still a huge parking lot beside the mall on the Erb side. I expect that 90%+ of the people that shop elsewhere would have no issue crossing Willis Way.

In any case, I think the mall was hurting already. The opening of the Conestoga Mall expansion, combined with the poor selection of shops in the mall, means that it's a dying mall. The public square certainly isn't solely responsible.

[Spokes]

In any case, I think the mall was hurting already. The opening of the Conestoga Mall expansion, combined with the poor selection of shops in the mall, means that it's a dying mall. The public square certainly isn't solely responsible.

Yup for sure. I think its a couple of things. First, people would rather go into shops along the street it seems than into the mall and second and probably more important than the first is that theres nothing in the mall at WTS that people want as far as stores go. If there were stores that people wanted to shop at, it'd be more of a destination. Lulu Lemon showed that. In the temporary time it was there, the traffic in the mall must have jumped exponentially.

[IEFBR14]

The public square has certainly hurt the mall, which I find to be absolutely ridiculous. Are the people of this region so fat and lazy they can't cross Willis Way to a gigantic parking lot with lots of free spaces? Sure, there's some people with mobility challenges (seniors, disabled) but there's still a huge parking lot beside the mall on the Erb side. I expect that 90%+ of the people that shop elsewhere would have no issue crossing Willis Way.
Parking is a b*llsh*t argument that whining mall tenants continue to make. As you say, the walking distance from car to stores in a large mall on a busy day is far longer than across Willis Way. Unfortunately some mall tenants made such a big stink about this before the square was approved that they probably psyched out the public.

As for people with mobility issues, a simple solution would be to designate most, if not all, of the parking spaces on the north side of Willis Way as "handicapped." But again that won't happen because the tenants will continue to whine and the politicians will continue to pander to them.

[Greg Moore]

As for people with mobility issues, a simple solution would be to designate most, if not all, of the parking spaces on the north side of Willis Way as "handicapped." But again that won't happen because the tenants will continue to whine and the politicians will continue to pander to them.

There is already more than enough disability permit designated parking. There has never been an issue with that I have noticed, and I use them and shop Uptown regularly.

[garthdanlor]

Correlation does not imply causation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation).
Exactly what I was thinking.

[taylortbb]

Parking is a b*llsh*t argument that whining mall tenants continue to make.

I think the reason the tenants make such an argument is that there are people in this Region that wont park accross Willis Way. I remember the parking study prior to the square noted that people circled for up to 20 minutes (!!!!!!) to get a parking space in that front lot, while there was ample space across Willis Way. There exist people in this Region that would rather spend 20 minutes in their car than 2 on their feet. Due to the success of the rest of Uptown I'm certain the right shops can succeed, and so I have little sympathy for the tenants.

My point is just, let's not forget that there are people who need to be persuaded to get out of their car. It's not as simple as parking doesn't have an effect, it's that parking shouldn't have an effect.

[garthdanlor]

I think the reason the tenants make such an argument is that there are people in this Region that wont park accross Willis Way. I remember the parking study prior to the square noted that people circled for up to 20 minutes (!!!!!!)
I've never understood the parking complaints in downtown Waterloo. The furthest parking spots from Waterloo Town Square, whether in the lot across Willis Way or in the parking garage across King, are no further away than the furthest spots in any of the Region's malls. Willis Way can hardly be considered a barrier either as all the area malls are encircled by roads so you always have to cross a road when entering any mall. Just doesn't make sense.

[IEFBR14]

There is already more than enough disability permit designated parking. There has never been an issue with that I have noticed, and I use them and shop Uptown regularly.I'm not saying there isn't, although I've occasionally had trouble finding one when taking a disabled parent to the mall. However the lack of disabled parking spots was one of the concerns expressed by some of the "whining tenants" (hint: the ones who are moving out to make way for Moxies.)

[IEFBR14]

My point is just, let's not forget that there are people who need to be persuaded to get out of their car. It's not as simple as parking doesn't have an effect, it's that parking shouldn't have an effect.Agreed. However neither the city nor the mall has done anything to try to change that behaviour. For example, they could do an analysis that compares the walking distance from an "average" Waterloo Square parking spot to the same walk at other local malls, then promote the relative convenience of shopping downtown.

They could also make the pedestrian crossings across Willis Way a lot more prominent for car drivers. Right now it's too easy for careless or inconsiderate drivers to blow through a crossing when pedestrians are present. Better signage, flashing lights, speed bumps, stop signs. I don't care. Just make it easier for pedestrians to make that crossing without risking their safety.

[IEFBR14]

Willis Way can hardly be considered a barrier either as all the area malls are encircled by roads so you always have to cross a road when entering any mall. Just doesn't make sense.See my comments about crossing Willis Way. In any case, all malls have a major roadway in front of the entrance with lots of traffic (mostly people circling the parking lot looking for a "convenient" spot) so there's danger everywhere. Again, there should be some relatively simple things one can do to slow drivers down. I hate dropping a parent off at the Zellers/Sobey's mall at Bridgeport/Weber because of all the stop signs and speed bumps, but I do have to admit that these devices are effective.

[jay]

It is pretty bad that people are that lazy...Finding a spot within a 1 minute walk is never a issue..I usually walk down from Bauer.. Only takes me 5mins or so..

On the subject of the mall, like what was said before, the stores suck that are in there. Unless your 60-80 you wouldn't buy anything in there. Cora's is always packed and Valu-Mart seems active. They need better stores inside the mall then they need better signage outside the mall to tell people whats inside the mall.

Once Moxies opens (assuming it does) then that will bring more people back into the mall. So if there are decent stores people want to shop at people will know about them and probably shop at them. Also the hours the stores currently have need to be changed, that's another problem.

[Spokes]

Agreed. However neither the city nor the mall has done anything to try to change that behaviour. For example, they could do an analysis that compares the walking distance from an "average" Waterloo Square parking spot to the same walk at other local malls, then promote the relative convenience of shopping downtown.

They could also make the pedestrian crossings across Willis Way a lot more prominent for car drivers. Right now it's too easy for careless or inconsiderate drivers to blow through a crossing when pedestrians are present. Better signage, flashing lights, speed bumps, stop signs. I don't care. Just make it easier for pedestrians to make that crossing without risking their safety.

But do you really need to spend time and money on an analysis of that. I mean it could get the message across, but you'd think most people could do that analysis by simpilly opening their eyes and using their heads.

If they went to faraview or conestoga mall, they'd find a parking spot and have to walk even farther. It's a joke. Pure laziness.

[Spokes]

On the subject of the mall, like what was said before, the stores suck that are in there. Unless your 60-80 you wouldn't buy anything in there. Cora's is always packed and Valu-Mart seems active. They need better stores inside the mall then they need better signage outside the mall to tell people whats inside the mall.

Once Moxies opens (assuming it does) then that will bring more people back into the mall. So if there are decent stores people want to shop at people will know about them and probably shop at them. Also the hours the stores currently have need to be changed, that's another problem.

Wow, its like I was reading your mind when I posted this (http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/showthread.php/322-Waterloo-Town-Square-Mall?p=5803#post5803)

[Greg Moore]

It is pretty bad that people are that lazy...Finding a spot within a 1 minute walk is never a issue..I usually walk down from Bauer.. Only takes me 5mins or so..
What seems to be worse is people trying to park for Vincenzo's. I am amazed at the number of people hovering around like flies trying to park at Bauer, or across the street on a Saturday. Hey people...there is a huge usually empty parking lot at the adult rec center.

[Spokes]

What seems to be worse is people trying to park for Vincenzo's. I am amazed at the number of people hovering around like flies trying to park at Bauer, or across the street on a Saturday. Hey people...there is a huge usually empty parking lot at the adult rec center.

Well what's the parking situation at Bauer? Correct me if Im wrong, but its free to park now, but they've got equipment up like you'll have to at some point pay for parking?

[IEFBR14]

But do you really need to spend time and money on an analysis of that. I mean it could get the message across, but you'd think most people could do that analysis by simpilly opening their eyes and using their heads.Unfortunately people need to be spoon fed. There was also a lot of tenant whining about loss of parking spots despite added spaces on both sides of the Caroline St slalom course and across the street in the Alexandra St parking lot. Even the owners of Charcoal Steak House expressed concern that patrons wouldn't walk more than a 100m. Perhaps the public perception is that parking in Uptown is a problem. Perhaps they think it was worsened by the erection of the town square. If so then the merchants, possibly with an assist from the city, need to demonstrate to them that it isn't.

BTW I live somewhat further away from the mall than Bauer123, maybe a 7 minute walk ;) I too walk to the mall and back regularly. Alas none of my neighbours do. (And if I'm shopping at Valu-Mart or the LCBO I bring a medium sized backpack to carry my purchases home.)

[Spokes]

Unfortunately people need to be spoon fed. There was also a lot of tenant whining about loss of parking spots despite added spaces on both sides of the Caroline St slalom course and across the street in the Alexandra St parking lot. Even the owners of Charcoal Steak House expressed concern that patrons wouldn't walk more than a 100m. Perhaps the public perception is that parking in Uptown is a problem. Perhaps they think it was worsened by the erection of the town square. If so then the merchants, possibly with an assist from the city, need to demonstrate to them that it isn't.

BTW I live somewhat further away from the mall than Bauer123, maybe a 7 minute walk ;) I too walk to the mall and back regularly. Alas none of my neighbours do. (And if I'm shopping at Valu-Mart or the LCBO I bring a medium sized backpack to carry my purchases home.)

It may very well be. But in my opinion, it doesn't make sense. Look around uptown, there's plenty of parking available. Is there parking available right in front of what you want? In some cases yes, in some no. But within a 1 or 2 minute walk? Absolutely. I dont have facts to back this up, but Im pretty sure there are spots in the uptown parkade more often than not, especially outside of office hours.

[IEFBR14]

What seems to be worse is people trying to park for Vincenzo's. I am amazed at the number of people hovering around like flies trying to park at Bauer, or across the street on a Saturday.They must be conditioned to doing that dance from the Belmont Village days :D


Hey people...there is a huge usually empty parking lot at the adult rec center.If the Rec Center is open on Saturdays I doubt they'd want their lot used by Bauer shoppers. IIRC there are already signs in their lot asking non Rec Center users to go elsewhere.

[IEFBR14]

It may very well be. But in my opinion, it doesn't make sense.I fully agree that it doesn't make sense. But that's exactly why there's a need to try to change the public's perception.

[Spokes]

I fully agree that it doesn't make sense. But that's exactly why there's a need to try to change the public's perception.

That's easier said than done, and its not just an uptown issue, its the region as a whole and our reliance on our cars.

[robhunter]

Yes, right off of King Street. Coquette and a hair studio are currently planned to be part of the development, along with a restaurant inside of the white century building. Ye's Sushi is also taking the old Outback Steakhouse spot.

We start construction soon and anticipate opening in July.

[IEFBR14]

Broken water main closes Highland Hills Mall (http://news.therecord.com/News/article/703984)
Businesses at the Highland Hills Mall in Kitchener are closed this morning as emergency crews fix a water main break.

Kitchener firefighters arrived at the Queens Boulevard plaza at 7:15 a.m. and were greeted by at least two feet of water. The water main broke inside the building’s utility room.

When crews opened the utility room door, water gushed out along with supplies and equipment, including a fridge.

“It’s a significant break and there is a significant amount of water,” said Kitchener fire platoon Chief Andy O’Reilly. “We haven’t figured out all the damage yet.”

The building’s water supply and power was shut off as investigators began looking for the cause of the break.

O’Reilly said he wasn’t sure when the stores would re-open.

Employees arrived at the plaza to find yellow tape stuck across the store doors. They were told to simply wait outside.

Some of the stores affected by the break include Winners, Mannequin Hair Salon, Payless Shoes Source, Bell World, Highland Hills Dental Centre, Bank of Montreal and Real Canadian Superstore.
That's a lot of water. Good thing no one was hurt by the flotsam and jetsam (and fridgesam) in the tsunami ;)

[robhunter]

Welcome to the forum Rob!

Just a quick question: have you considered North Waterloo for a store? I would think that the University Avenue location would still serve the west Waterloo catchment area, which is now split between the new Erb store and the University store. A store in North Waterloo (i.e. King/Northfield) would be a great location in my opinion, as it is already a proven and dominant retail area for the whole region. You wouldn't have to wait for more tenants to locate in the area to gauge the success of the store as you do with Erb. There are literally hundreds of retail, service and restaurants in the King Northfield Area, while only a couple handfulls at Erb/Ira.

It's definitely under consideration. The Smart Centre in St. Jacob's might be a possibility as well. We've also started experimenting with mall kiosks (Cambridge Centre) and I'd love to get open at Conestoga Mall. We'll keep an eye on all the numbers this year and see what becomes availabile for next year.

[Urbanomicon]

Highland Hills Mall open after water main repairs

April 30, 2010
Record staff
http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/704464

KITCHENER — The Real Canadian Superstore is open this morning after being shut down yesterday due to a water main break.

Several other stores were also forced to close for the day Thursday after the early morning break inside a utility room at Highland Hills Mall. Emergency crews were called to the Queens Boulevard plaza around 7:15 a.m. and were greeted by up to a metre of water inside the electrical room.

Crews taped off entrances to the stores as they worked to find the cause of the break, which ended up being a 15-centimetre-long hole in a ductile iron water main.

The Roberts Group was called into handle repairs to the plumbing and electrical systems.

This morning the utility room was still taped off but the grocery store was open. It’s expected the other stores will be open as well.

[TripleQ]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Good Life Fitness is moving into Beechwood Plaza where the old Shoppers used to be. I think that spot has been sitting empty for a couple of years now?

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Good Life Fitness is moving into Beechwood Plaza where the old Shoppers used to be. I think that spot has been sitting empty for a couple of years now?

That would be a pretty small GoodLife, but still, I can believe it.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

It's definitely under consideration. The Smart Centre in St. Jacob's might be a possibility as well. We've also started experimenting with mall kiosks (Cambridge Centre) and I'd love to get open at Conestoga Mall. We'll keep an eye on all the numbers this year and see what becomes availabile for next year.

A really hot piece of property in that area is the abandonned garage beside Williams and behind the Home Depot that fronts on to Northfield Drive. That would be a very prime spot for a food or stand alone retail outlet.

[IEFBR14]

I can believe it.Believe it.

According to DW who teaches at GL, they're taking over the SDM. Yes it will be relatively small but all they'll be doing there is hot yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Yoga) and RPM (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QBOxdfDFVzMJ:www.lesmills.co.nz/rpm%2520find%2520out%2520more%2520faq.cfm&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca).

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Believe it.

According to DW who teaches at GL, they're taking over the SDM. Yes it will be relatively small but all they'll be doing there is hot yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Yoga) and RPM (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QBOxdfDFVzMJ:www.lesmills.co.nz/rpm%2520find%2520out%2520more%2520faq.cfm&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca).

I guess GL just wants to open up before the super fitness club at the Ira Needles Commercial Centre (Boardwalk) opens - even if it is just a smaller hot yoga/RPM outlet.

[Spokes]

All the retail space below the Eaton Lofts has signs up from CBRE saying "for sale" or "for lease". Could be a good sign, CBRE didn't have signs up there before, I think they were doing it internally. Has there been some sort of agreement in the legal case?

[jay]

I hope so... That project has been in limbo for years... It's a nice building if it gets finished..Street front retail and underground parking.

I saw some residential units for sale on MLS awhile ago though Power of Sale. They were cheap (but considering the situation I would hesitate to buy one)

[Spokes]

I hope so... That project has been in limbo for years... It's a nice building if it gets finished..Street front retail and underground parking.

I saw some residential units for sale on MLS awhile ago though Power of Sale. They were cheap (but considering the situation I would hesitate to buy one)

The retail needs work. The windows are really short and a few of them you have to walk up a set of stairs upon walking in the door. Prime candidates for the facade grant program.

[TripleQ]

I've confirmed that Futureshop is moving from Sportsworld to Sunrise.. should be opening in August.

Hopefully Sportsworld isn't dying..

[Spokes]

I've confirmed that Futureshop is moving from Sportsworld to Sunrise.. should be opening in August.

Hopefully Sportsworld isn't dying..

It might indeed be. If they lost Cosco, they'd be dead for sure.

[Razzie]

It might indeed be. If they lost Cosco, they'd be dead for sure.

I don't think Staples is doing very well either - everything's pushed to the front half of the store and has been for ages.

[Urbanomicon]

It might indeed be. If they lost Cosco, they'd be dead for sure.

Empire Theatres is still going strong.

[DHLawrence]

Chapters and Petsmart are still going, and Home Depot just sunk some money into reroofing the store and rebuilding the parking lot down to the gravel bed. I heard that the plan is to take the north Home Depot parking lot and the Future Shop land and combine them into one parcel to sell off.

There's even a reliable vendor in the perennially empty space next to Petsmart: Curry's Art Supplies. And according to the staff, they intend to stay put.

[urbandreamer]

That Chapter's may close--someone who works in the biz has told me expect store closings as increased competition from e-book sellers takes hold. Their strongest performer in the area is likely the Waterloo location--closer to UofW etc.

[Urbanomicon]

That Chapter's may close--someone who works in the biz has told me expect store closings as increased competition from e-book sellers takes hold. Their strongest performer in the area is likely the Waterloo location--closer to UofW etc.


I don't know about that, the Gateway location gets a lot of moviegoers waiting to catch their flick. Not that these people necessarily buy anything, but they get the traffic. To be honest, I would rather see the Waterloo store closed (if they have to close one). The Kitchener one is larger and has a bigger selection.

[Urbanomicon]

While we're talking about the Gateway area, does anyone know why the East Side Marios is closed? It has been that way for several months now with no explanation other than "Please visit one of our other locations". I can't believe it is a business issue, that place has always been packed every time I've been there.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

I don't know about that, the Gateway location gets a lot of moviegoers waiting to catch their flick. Not that these people necessarily buy anything, but they get the traffic. To be honest, I would rather see the Waterloo store closed (if they have to close one). The Kitchener one is larger and has a bigger selection.

From what I have heard, there may be a Chapters opening at The Boardwalk. Maybe the Kitchener Chapters will relocate here.

I doubt the Waterloo Chapters will be going anywhere anytime soon. It's at one of the busiest intersections in the Region and close to a lot of amenities. Over the lunch hour, the store is often very busy with nearby office workers stopping in on their breaks.

[Spokes]

While we're talking about the Gateway area, does anyone know why the East Side Marios is closed? It has been that way for several months now with no explanation other than "Please visit one of our other locations". I can't believe it is a business issue, that place has always been packed every time I've been there.

I didn't even know they were closed. Another hit to the area.

[Osiris]

While we're talking about the Gateway area, does anyone know why the East Side Marios is closed? It has been that way for several months now with no explanation other than "Please visit one of our other locations". I can't believe it is a business issue, that place has always been packed every time I've been there.

Yeah I was surprised by this when my mother and I went there about three months ago to catch a bite before catching Avatar. The location has been removed from the website as well - so I doubt it's a reno or revamp of any kind.

[Spokes]

Maybe people are finally starting to shop closer to where they live? Theres really not a ton of residential near by with the exception of Deer Ridge.

Then again that would fail to explain the expansion of Deer Ridge Plaza.

[DHLawrence]

Maybe people are finally starting to shop closer to where they live? Theres really not a ton of residential near by with the exception of Deer Ridge.

Preston, Preston Heights, Blair, Doon--not everyone goes to Hespeler Road.

If you think that Gateway is bad, take a look at the retail near Conestoga College. A Tim's, a McDonalds, and a TSC.

[Spokes]

Preston, Preston Heights, Blair, Doon--not everyone goes to Hespeler Road.

If you think that Gateway is bad, take a look at the retail near Conestoga College. A Tim's, a McDonalds, and a TSC.

That's true. And yes, the Conestoga area is terrible.

[Urbanomicon]

That's true. And yes, the Conestoga area is terrible.

That always surprised me. I would have thought a property developer would at least try to develop some sort of commercial centre similar to the ones near U of W and Laurier. Not that I'm a big fan a strip malls, but for the amount of student and vehicular traffic that passes through that intersection every day, it seems very underdeveloped. Perhaps its a zoning issue.

[Spokes]

That always surprised me. I would have thought a property developer would at least try to develop some sort of commercial centre similar to the ones near U of W and Laurier. Not that I'm a big fan a strip malls, but for the amount of student and vehicular traffic that passes through that intersection every day, it seems very underdeveloped. Perhaps its a zoning issue.

Part of the issue may be a) the number of students that goes to conestoga and b) the number of students living in a close proximity. I don't think either of those would compare to that of Waterloo. That being said, you'd think there'd still be money to be made there.

[UrbanWaterloo]

KIT: Downtown Advisory Committee
Thursday May 13, 2010 | 4:00 - 6:00 p.m.
Conestoga Room, Ground Floor
Agenda (http://www.kitchener.ca/Files/Item/item19010_may_13_2010.doc)

Discussion Items
2. New Business
2.4 Business Attraction Strategy Update (M. Garner) (2 min)

[DHLawrence]

Part of the issue may be a) the number of students that goes to conestoga and b) the number of students living in a close proximity. I don't think either of those would compare to that of Waterloo. That being said, you'd think there'd still be money to be made there.

Soon to be twice as much when the Blair campus is built.

[Spokes]

Soon to be twice as much when the Blair campus is built.

That's true. I wonder if we'll see any significant development around there. Not sure what would fit there though.

[Urbanomicon]

That's true. I wonder if we'll see any significant development around there. Not sure what would fit there though.

Maybe we'll see one of the "new" Mel's Diner locations. :)

[Spokes]

Don't think this is very new, but the End of the Roll store on Victoria near King has closed up shop.

New transit station anyone? We'd just need to get rid of Noble Trade and the service station on the other side of Waterloo st. and the Beer Store.

[taylortbb]

Don't think this is very new, but the End of the Roll store on Victoria near King has closed up shop.

New transit station anyone? We'd just need to get rid of Noble Trade and the service station on the other side of Waterloo st. and the Beer Store.

Noble Trade is actually already gone too. Noticed on John Macdonald's Jane's Walk. The Rent a Tire is apparently moving or gone, and there's now a regional ambulance station there (not sure how old it is). Really all that's left there is the beer store (easy for the region to displace itself).

[Spokes]

Noble Trade is actually already gone too. Noticed on John Macdonald's Jane's Walk. The Rent a Tire is apparently moving or gone, and there's now a regional ambulance station there (not sure how old it is). Really all that's left there is the beer store (easy for the region to displace itself).

So would the region just expropriate the property? How would that work?

I wonder if this is something they're already keeping an eye on with vacancies popping up. I would hope so.

[taylortbb]

So would the region just expropriate the property? How would that work?

I wonder if this is something they're already keeping an eye on with vacancies popping up. I would hope so.

Generally the region enters into negotiations and simultaneously beings the expropriation process should the negotiations not have results. Can't say that makes for particularily fair negotiations, but it serves the public interest.

I think once GO confirms trains are coming to KW then we'll see things start happening. Until there's some direction from council they can't really do much. The GO Train EA was clear that the station needed to be moved over to King, so I expect it will become a joint GO-VIA-Region project. The bus companies might be involved a bit too, but I wouldn't count on seeing too much there. Once GO is coming it's safe for the region to begin buying up land, and then details can be worked out and a station can be designed.

[Spokes]

Ya I wouldn't count on the bus companies (ie Greyhound) either. Did the EA say the Weber st station was completely unusable?

[taylortbb]

No, it said the Weber St station would work fine temporarily, but that LRT integration and eventual service increases would require a proper station at King St. That's certainly a win for the region, it means GO will cover a significant portion of the costs. If we want more than the simple platforms other GO stations get though that's where the region will have to step up. Though even GO acknowledges it's a different situation, as it would be only the third station in the GO network to not have park and ride. Fortunately with VIA expanding service they'll likely be interested in contributing too.

[Spokes]

All the more reason to give it underground parking.

[taylortbb]

All the more reason to give it underground parking.

Not really. Kitchener will get two stations, one downtown for those that live there and GRT connections, one in Breslau for park and ride.

[Spokes]

Not really. Kitchener will get two stations, one downtown for those that live there and GRT connections, one in Breslau for park and ride.

Ya but if it's also going to be the main VIA station, some parking would be smart.

[mpd618]

Ya but if it's also going to be the main VIA station, some parking would be smart.

Honestly, take the bus, park and ride via LRT, take a taxi. We shouldn't be subsidizing driving as a way of getting to a downtown train station. In any case, commercial parking garages can certainly be built in walking distance.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

I noticed that lululemon has a page reserved on their website for a store in Waterloo, but with no data (i.e. hours, phone #). Could this mean a store here in the very near future?

Check it out: http://www.lululemon.com/waterloo

[smably]

I don't know whether this is the proper thread, but check out what I found in uptown today:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k55/smably/tesla.jpg

Here's the deal -- apparently it's somehow related to Channers...

Electric Summer Roadster Tour: Waterloo, Canada
Channer's Waterloo in association with Eton of Sweden brings the 2010 Tesla Roadster to Waterloo

Channer's Waterloo
95 King Street
South Waterloo, ON N2J 5A2
519.888.9888


Meet Iain Cooper from Eton of Sweden

Preview the Eton of Sweden Spring 2010 Shirt Collection

View the 2010 electric Tesla Roadster

Tesla representatives will be on hand to answer your questions about the Roadster


Test Drive appointments are available Friday - Sunday, May 28th - 30th. Contact Dale Maffett at dale@teslamotors.com or by phone 650.681.5279
http://www.teslamotors.com/teslastore/toronto

It can be yours for only $130,000! :P

[TripleQ]

I drove past Mike Lazaridis in his Telsa roadster the other day too ;)

[CompassRose]

I saw it doing drive-rounds! Amazing! It's beautiful, and the only sound it makes is the tires on the road. If only I had a spare hundred grand lying around.

(Aside: I'm really sad that there are proposals to have sound generators on electric cars "for safety reasons." Imagine if all cars were electric, and the streets were nearly silent! Think outside the box, people! Find other ways to alert pedestrians, including those with disabilities - don't deliberately create noise pollution.)

[IEFBR14]

Think outside the box, people! Find other ways to alert pedestrians, including those with disabilities - don't deliberately create noise pollution.)
By comparison with those @#$%ing "beep, beep, beep..." backup signals on trucks, the sound these sorts of generators make is a minor annoyance -- that might even save someone's life.

What do you propose as an alternative?

[panamaniac]

By comparison with those @#$%ing "beep, beep, beep..." backup signals on trucks, the sound these sorts of generators make is a minor annoyance -- that might even save someone's life.

What do you propose as an alternative?

Maybe tinkling bells like an ice cream truck!

[CompassRose]

How about some kind of sensing device that PEOPLE could carry that would go off if a moving object came within a certain distance?

I don't know. But every time I go somewhere that's really out of the urbs, I realise how much constant, low-level, hideous noise is pressing on me every day and what a huge relief it is to have it gone. General road noise, from everywhere. Hum of machinery in every single building (it's so amazing when the power goes out, that silence!). Not useful noise, not pleasant noise, nothing - just racket that we no longer hear consciously.

[IEFBR14]

How about some kind of sensing device that PEOPLE could carry that would go off if a moving object came within a certain distance?
Why should "PEOPLE" carry that burden, literally or figuratively? The onus has always been on the operators of "moving objects" to avoid collisions with pedestrians.

In any case, how would that work? Would everyone from a little kid to a senior be required to carry such a device, keep it charged, etc. just for your convenience?

What if the battery ran out? Would they be required to stay put until they could recharge it? Or do you expect them to carry spare batteries too?

And if they did carry such a device, when the alarm went off, how would they know from approximately which direction and at approximately what speed the moving object is coming at them? Sounds that emanate from the moving object give that sort of vital information.

Finally, while you're concerned about noise pollution, I'm concerned about the risks of carrying around a device that may emit radiation or contain hazardous materials or might otherwise harm me in different ways.

If you don't like noise then wear ear plugs. Oh and don't forget to pray that you don't get hit by silent "moving objects." (No, that's not a serious suggestion. At least no more serious than yours.)

[mpd618]

If sound is being added to a quiet vehicle, it could actually be designed to convey more information -- e.g. it could convey the speed of the vehicle.

[Urbanomicon]

If sound is being added to a quiet vehicle, it could actually be designed to convey more information -- e.g. it could convey the speed of the vehicle.

As amusing as it would be for every car to be yelling "This vehicle is moving at 60 km/h" over and over again. Adding "noise" is not the answer.

I've worked in plenty of places with electric forklifts; they are basically silent and travel around blind corners all the time. If both pedestrians and vehicle operators look out for eachother there is no problem.

I think the "problem" just stems from the fact that a lot of pedestrians are used to just venturing out into the street without properly looking both ways for cars (usually due to talking on a phone or texting, etc.). The only "problem" is that of lazyness and complacency on the part of pedestrians.

[mpd618]

As amusing as it would be for every car to be yelling "This vehicle is moving at 60 km/h" over and over again. Adding "noise" is not the answer.
Think pitch, not words.


I've worked in plenty of places with electric forklifts; they are basically silent and travel around blind corners all the time. If both pedestrians and vehicle operators look out for eachother there is no problem.

That's a big if. I don't think it is an appropriate expectation for the burden to be equally shared in such an unbalanced situation as car versus pedestrian.


I think the "problem" just stems from the fact that a lot of pedestrians are used to just venturing out into the street without properly looking both ways for cars (usually due to talking on a phone or texting, etc.). The only "problem" is that of lazyness and complacency on the part of pedestrians.

And the solution is for them to be run over? Unlike your workplaces, streets are not a place one has to be qualified to walk in, and wishful thinking about what pedestrians should or should not be doing is irrelevant. Two-ton chunks of metal being piloted by (often distracted) drivers should not be barreling around space shared with pedestrians and cyclists without giving ample warning to those other users of the streets. Limiting the warning to solely a visual one is an invitation to many otherwise preventable collisions and deaths.

The only argument I see against added noise is that it... doesn't make cars in the future less quiet than cars now? So what?

[IEFBR14]

As amusing as it would be for every car to be yelling "This vehicle is moving at 60 km/h" over and over again. Adding "noise" is not the answer.I doubt that's what he had in mind. One way to convey speed of vehicle is by varying the pitch of the sound. It doesn't have to be loud like backup alarms, just loud enough to provide an audible clue.


I've worked in plenty of places with electric forklifts; they are basically silent and travel around blind corners all the time. If both pedestrians and vehicle operators look out for eachother there is no problem.Forklifts aren't completely silent; they do make some noise. There are usually mirrors installed at blind corners. Employees, both forklift operators and on foot, are trained to watch out for each other. In some warehouses, foot traffic is prohibited in high forklift traffic areas. Forklifts generally don't travel as fast as cars so collisions, when they happen, aren't usually as severe for pedestrians. And you don't often encounter children, seniors or the disabled in warehouses.


I think the "problem" just stems from the fact that a lot of pedestrians are used to just venturing out into the street without properly looking both ways for cars (usually due to talking on a phone or texting, etc.). The only "problem" is that of lazyness and complacency on the part of pedestrians.Some pedestrians, for sure. Some car drivers (and cyclists ;)) also for sure. That applies to not looking, not signalling, not stopping, not obeying signs/signals, yakking, texting, laziness, complacency as well as just plain arrogance and insensitivity. None of us here fit that description, eh? :eek:

You're hardly going to make Waterloo friendly for pedestrians if you make the "problem" exclusively theirs and thus tacitly declare open season on them.

But in any case, perhaps we should move this to a more appropriate thread?

[Urbanomicon]

Think pitch, not words.

The Doppler Effect will take care of that.


And the solution is for them to be run over?

I agree that having an audible warning system does add an additional level of safety. But I just have to wonder if this would even be a consideration if the first cars invented in the 1900s were completely silent. This seems more like a "resistance to change" than anything else.

After all, we could remove all of the mufflers from current vehicles and make them "really safe". :)

Look at all the money we could save by not having to build large unslightly noise barriers.

As a side note: at high speeds, I don't think electric vehicles will be completely silent. I imaging the air turbulance and tires will make a decent amount of noise.

[Urbanomicon]

You're hardly going to make Waterloo friendly for pedestrians if you make the "problem" exclusively theirs and thus tacitly declare open season on them.

I wasn't attempting to make the problem exclusively with pedestrians. Drivers need to be even more aware than pedestrians. The ultimate resposibility to prevent a collision is with the driver.

I was focussing on pedestrians because they are the ones who are concerned with the quite vehicles.

[IEFBR14]

I agree that having an audible warning system does add an additional level of safety. But I just have to wonder if this would even be a consideration if the first cars invented in the 1900s were completely silent. This seems more like a "resistance to change" than anything else.Actually early car drivers had much more onerous requirements to announce their arrival: "For the safety of pedestrians and animals, a law was passed stating that '…self-propelled vehicles on public roads must be preceded by a man on foot waving a red flag and blowing a horn (http://www.cogapa.com/history.htm).'" Maybe we should return to those days :p

[Urbanomicon]

Actually early car drivers had much more onerous requirements to announce their arrival: "For the safety of pedestrians and animals, a law was passed stating that '…self-propelled vehicles on public roads must be preceded by a man on foot waving a red flag and blowing a horn (http://www.cogapa.com/history.htm).'" Maybe we should return to those days :p

:D That's hilarious. I guess people back then called "Hornblower" instead of "Shotgun".

[taylortbb]

I think the "problem" just stems from the fact that a lot of pedestrians are used to just venturing out into the street without properly looking both ways for cars (usually due to talking on a phone or texting, etc.). The only "problem" is that of lazyness and complacency on the part of pedestrians.

This isn't about lazy pedestrians, this is about those with disabilities, specifically those that are blind. You can't just tell them to "look both ways".

[Urbanomicon]

This isn't about lazy pedestrians, this is about those with disabilities, specifically those that are blind. You can't just tell them to "look both ways".

How many blind people jaywalk across the street without any sort of guide dog/person? This is more a question of how much we should cater to the disabled and is even more off topic than we already are.

[taylortbb]

How many blind people jaywalk across the street without any sort of guide dog/person? This is more a question of how much we should cater to the disabled and is even more off topic than we already are.

It's not just about jaywalking though, it's about places like a roundabout where you have to know when it's safe to cross. Or a separated right-turn curve at at traffic lights. Most people that are blind don't use guide dogs, and human companions aren't exactly a practical option.

I'm not going to start a debate on how much we should cater to the disabled. My job is an accessibility specialist, so I'm not unbiased.

[Urbanomicon]

It's not just about jaywalking though, it's about places like a roundabout where you have to know when it's safe to cross. Or a separated right-turn curve at at traffic lights. Most people that are blind don't use guide dogs, and human companions aren't exactly a practical option.

I will agree with you there. Roundabouts are probably horrible for blind people to cross even with vehicle noise. I can see and I hate crossing them for fear of being run over.

[Urbanomicon]

It's not just about jaywalking though, it's about places like a roundabout where you have to know when it's safe to cross. Or a separated right-turn curve at at traffic lights.

I agree with you there. Roundabouts must be horrible to cross blind even with vehicle noise. I can see and I hate crossing them for fear of being run over.

[DHLawrence]

To me that's the fault of whoever put the crosswalks *in* the roundabouts. They should be outside them so that the distance to cross is shorter and less hazardous.

Back on topic, I'm in favour of sound generators on electric cars, but understand that the sound made by the Tesla isn't ideal to some. Why not use white noise generators like those used in offices or stores? Instead of a hum, have a gentle whoosh.

[neonjoe]

There's a sign up at the Sunrise Centre announcing the coming of Future Shop soon. I didn't see it up yesterday.

[Urbanomicon]

There's a sign up at the Sunrise Centre announcing the coming of Future Shop soon. I didn't see it up yesterday.

I guess it must be moving in where Linen's & Things used to be. The location is certainly big enough.

[UrbanWaterloo]

Waterloo Commons (Ira Needles & Erb) - June 11, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-June11.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-3.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-4.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-5.jpg

[Spokes]

Waterloo Commons (Ira Needles & Erb) - June 11, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-1.jpg


Wow, now THAT is some good interaction with the street and sidewalk!

[Urbanomicon]

Wow, now THAT is some good interaction with the street and sidewalk!

I think pedestirans are supposed to walk on the median. :)

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/WaterlooCommonsIraNeedlesErb-Jun-4.jpg


OMG! Another dentist! We totally need more in KW. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, why haven't we seen a Tim Hortons open in West Waterloo in the past few years? For the entire Laurelwood, Erbsville, Columbia Forest, Westvale area, the closest is the tiny Timmies at University and Fischer-Hallman that's tucked away in the plaza. If there can be 3 Starbucks, there can surely be at least that many Timmies.

[metropolis]

Waterloo would not allow for the size of drive-thru Tim's wanted here and thank the stars for that!

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

I find that surprising, especially since all the banks at that intersection have drive-thrus, in addition to the Starbucks.

[Shawn]

The architecture and layout of this development reminds me of shopping plazas you'd see in American mid-size city suburbs. Not saying it's a bad thing or a good thing.. it's just the first thing I thought of when I saw it. All it's lacking is a TJ Maxx and some palm trees!

[mpd618]

The architecture and layout of this development reminds me of shopping plazas you'd see in American mid-size city suburbs. Not saying it's a bad thing or a good thing.. it's just the first thing I thought of when I saw it. All it's lacking is a TJ Maxx and some palm trees!

Like the Conestoga Mall addition, it really has that trying-to-be-a-street-wall look. Really, guys, you're not re-creating what makes a street attractive with your car-oriented mall's facade.

[KLM]

Like the Conestoga Mall addition, it really has that trying-to-be-a-street-wall look. Really, guys, you're not re-creating what makes a street attractive with your car-oriented mall's facade.

I agree.This is something wanna be thing.Really interesting combination of Beer Store,Marble Slab, Dentist and Pita Pit lol:)
Some bright colors dont hurt at all ,especially during winter time .I hope they dont have flashing lights during night time.

Any chance to to see some pictures during night time ,ligthing wise?

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

All it's lacking is a TJ Maxx and some palm trees!

Actually, it's not too far off. TJ Maxx's parent company - TJX operates the Winners and Home Sense band of stores in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJX_Companies

[metropolis]

It was the volume Tim Horton's tends to produce in their drive thrus. Starbucks here has a drive-thru too though it seems their demogrpahic is more likely to get out of the car (or the volume of people through the average Starbucks is smaller?). The city outright denied a drive through Tim Hortons at the Laurelwood/Erbsville plaza. Hence no Tims in this part of town.

Places to grow act discourages drive-thrus also I believe by stipulating mixed-use development, which the Erb/Erbsville plaze with the Canadian Tire in it is zoned and was supposed to be initially.

[smably]

I saw a sign on the door of A Second Look (the bookstore beside the Queen Street Commons) saying that they were moving to the old SDM building on King Street. Sounds promising. I wonder who will take their place in that building -- I know the upper floors are being renovated right now, so hopefully it will find a good use.

[Spokes]

I saw a sign on the door of A Second Look (the bookstore beside the Queen Street Commons) saying that they were moving to the old SDM building on King Street. Sounds promising. I wonder who will take their place in that building -- I know the upper floors are being renovated right now, so hopefully it will find a good use.

That'd be awesome! For two reasons, first, it fills the SDM location on King which is great, and they'll be fixing it up Im sure. And second, it allows the Queen st location to be fixed up and leased to someone else. Right now the facade looks like crap, a broken window, rotten wood, etc.

[UrbanWaterloo]

A Second Look - June 24, 2010

Current Location: 33 Queen Street South, Kitchener
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookCurrentLocation33Quee-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookCurrentLocation33Quee-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookCurrentLocation33QueenSt.jpg

Future Location: 31 King Street West, Kitchener
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookFutureLocation31KingStre.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookFutureLocation31KingS-1.jpg

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

^ Knew I saw something. :D

There seems to be a lot of shuffling of retail within downtown Kitchener. Encore Records just moved to King street from Queen. Out of the Past moved down the road. Shoppers Drug Mart expanded and moved up the road, etc.

Now I'm itching to figure out what, if anything, will be taking over the current Second Look location. Hopefully something, because otherwise it appears that King street is doing really well at the expense of Queen street.

[Spokes]

^ Knew I saw something. :D

There seems to be a lot of shuffling of retail within downtown Kitchener. Encore Records just moved to King street from Queen. Out of the Past moved down the road. Shoppers Drug Mart expanded and moved up the road, etc.

Now I'm itching to figure out what, if anything, will be taking over the current Second Look location. Hopefully something, because otherwise it appears that King street is doing really well at the expense of Queen street.

Really? Where?

And Catacombs moved from Queen to king too. Maybe we'll see Queen get a bit of a facelift soon?

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

Really? Where?

And Catacombs moved from Queen to king too. Maybe we'll see Queen get a bit of a facelift soon?

Sorry, it was Catacombs. I mixed them up.

[Spokes]

Sorry, it was Catacombs. I mixed them up.

Ahh damn, you had me excited there.

[panamaniac]

A Second Look - June 24, 2010

Current Location: 33 Queen Street South, Kitchener
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookCurrentLocation33Quee-2.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLookCurrentLocation33Quee-1.jpg


I am glad that 33 Queen S. is being renovated but I am disappointed to see that the new windows do not resemble the original sash windows. Seems like a poor way to treat a nice old building.

[Spokes]

I am glad that 33 Queen S. is being renovated but I am disappointed to see that the new windows do not resemble the original sash windows. Seems like a poor way to treat a nice old building.

Ya it's definitely not ideal in terms of keeping the character of the building. I'll wait until it's all done to judge though. It's great that its getting fixed up. I dont like that the one window at the bottom right seems to have a floor built right through the middle of it. Whats up with that?

Either way, I hope they redo the main level of this too when it's vacant. Ideally It'd be nice to get rid of the steps up to the store, but I don't know how realistic that is.

[Spokes]

^ Knew I saw something. :D

There seems to be a lot of shuffling of retail within downtown Kitchener. Encore Records just moved to King street from Queen. Out of the Past moved down the road. Shoppers Drug Mart expanded and moved up the road, etc.

Now I'm itching to figure out what, if anything, will be taking over the current Second Look location. Hopefully something, because otherwise it appears that King street is doing really well at the expense of Queen street.

Just another thought about this, it might have to do in part with the makeover of King. It's drawn more people which is making businesses want to be along the strip. Worst case senario, all the businesses fill up King st locations and leave Queen vacant for a bit, but when King is full, Queen will be valuable. I always thought there was definite redevelopment potential on Queen as some of the buildings were either run down a bit, or just didnt fit in with the rest (North East Corner of Queen and Charles)

I wonder if we'll see similar movement once phase two is done. The city should take the opportunity while locations are vacant to encourage owners to fix them up and put good sinage on them (is it just me or does Out of the Past's sign look like crap?)

[UrbanWaterloo]

New Indigo Kids Shops Host Grand Opening Celebrations Across Ontario
All weekend, Friday to Sunday, July 23rd to July 25th, 2010
TORONTO | June 30, 2010 | http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2010/30/c9437.html

Captivating kids and parents alike, the newly expanded Indigo Kids Shops boast 3,000 square feet of books and toys for children 0- 12 years old. The shop-in-shop Indigo Kids section features custom shelving, extra wide aisles, colourful décor and lots of space for hands-on activities to make an ideal after school and weekend destination offering affordable entertainment for the entire family.

Chapters Kitchener | 135 Gateway Park Drive, Kitchener, ON
Chapters Waterloo | 428 King Street North, Waterloo, ON

[UrbanWaterloo]

A Second Look's Future Location (31 King Street West, Kitchener) - July 9, 2010

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLooksFutureLocation31King-1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/UrbanWaterloo/Retail/ASecondLooksFutureLocation31KingStr.jpg

[Spokes]

The Parmasters sign on the side of Market Square has been taken down. Looks like that project might be dead. Again.

[Spokes]

Mention of the Eaton's Lofts over in the Arrow thread made me think of this. It looks like there could be some renovations going on to one of the retail units at ground floor. Either that or they're just tearing it all up. Either way, both inside and out need a lot of work. I hope when they fix things up, they take advantage of the City's facade grant program. I also hope they have the commercial space be TRULY ground floor level, not having to walk up some stairs once you're inside the front door.

[jay]

Eaton's lofts sadden me cause like you said there is so much promise. I'm not sure what is happening with all the lawsuits, but hopefully that is coming to a end and they can start renting out the commercial units. It's prime land and with the units above it could become what it was supposed to be when the project started.

But ya they need to fix up the outside it's in quite a state at the moment.

[Spokes]

Eaton's lofts sadden me cause like you said there is so much promise. I'm not sure what is happening with all the lawsuits, but hopefully that is coming to a end and they can start renting out the commercial units. It's prime land and with the units above it could become what it was supposed to be when the project started.

But ya they need to fix up the outside it's in quite a state at the moment.

Yup, lots of work is needed. No stucco, take a page out of David's Gourmet and do stone. And fix up the stairs going into the lofts (Im sure thats just because with the lawsuit, theres no upkeep)

Kitchener's facade guidelines gives some really interesting statements about that property and how they should fix it up. They point out how the windows dont go nearly high enough, they could really do floor to ceiling windows, but they've got to fix it before renting it out.

[Spokes]

The return of Canada Post to the core?


...According to a recent Canada Post notice to weary local customers, the corporation is proposing to correct its earlier expensive blunder by spending many more thousands to return the main post office to the downtown. The notice, complete with a map, says to serve customers better, Canada Post will move the main office about a kilometre west along King to what appears to be the Market Square building at Frederick Street.

The same document suggests the new location will offer customers “enhanced service, more staff and longer hours of operation . . . in Kitchener’s downtown core, close to shopping and other amenities.”

Corporation spokesperson Tom Creech told me Canada Post is considering such a move in early 2011 “but the issue is still very much up in the air.”...
http://news.therecord.com/Opinions/EditorialOpinion/article/752479

When I first thought about this I wasn't impressed. I have serious doubts about Market Square supporting retail. But then the more I thought about it, the more this makes sense. Canada Post is a destination, somewhere people are going because they have to get something/do something. It's not like other businesses which rely on people seeing them and coming in to help support them.

Ideally I'd love to see them in that jewelry/watch shop right when you first walk in. Have them occupy a few spots (where Athletic Direct is). That gives them lots of visibility, and then you can still put another office tenant on the main floor (which I think they should do)

[Spokes]

So another retailer is moving from the periphery of the core to King street. Rarefunk is moving from Duke street to King street. Im not sure what the exact location is, but it's the spot where Magnetic North had set up shop. Between Gloss and The Wine Rack.

That Duke block is losing a few businesses. First Tres Chic, now this. I doubt we'll see any redevelopment of any significance here though. Unless it was a big project like the Four Churches Project. Although something like BPR Lofts could probably fit there now that I think about it.

[UrbanWaterloo]

A Second Look's Future Location (31 King Street West, Kitchener) - August 17, 2010

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/Kitchener/SAM_6435.jpg

[Spokes]

Just heard a radio ad, Soho Sneaker shop in uptown Waterloo is closing up shop. That's too bad, it was a nice addition to uptown, but that being said, that property is VERY valuable in terms of redevelopment.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

Just heard a radio ad, Soho Sneaker shop in uptown Waterloo is closing up shop. That's too bad, it was a nice addition to uptown, but that being said, that property is VERY valuable in terms of redevelopment.

No way. Are they having a liquidation sale?

[Spokes]

No way. Are they having a liquidation sale?

They are. You seem excited haha.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

lululemon just announced very good 2Q profits - they more than doubled, with many locations pulling in $1,530 sales per square foot. The yoga retailer has bold plans for 2011 - with plans to open 20-25 new stores. Will a Waterloo Region location finally be added to the list??

Reuters: Lululemon doubles profit, ups outlook, shares rise (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE68907P20100910)

[UrbanWaterloo]

PERMIT IS FOR AN INTERIOR ALTERATION - MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL IS PROPOSED - UNIT 100 - POSTNET (KITCHENER)
Permit No 10121921
Site Address 447 FREDERICK ST
Status Issued
Permit Type Commercial
Application Date August 12, 2010
Issued By DIANNEC
Issue Date August 26, 2010
Work Proposed Interior Finish
Construction Value $25,000


447 Frederick Street - September 9, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/447%20Frederick%20Street%2C%20Kitchener%20-%20September%209%2C%202010%20-%201%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/447%20Frederick%20Street%2C%20Kitchener%20-%20September%209%2C%202010%20-%202%20Resized.JPG http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/447%20Frederick%20Street%2C%20Kitchener%20-%20September%209%2C%202010%20-%203%20Resized.JPG

[panamaniac]

Glad to see something moving in to that building.

[metropolis]

Which is just weird to me seeing as it is right off of the expressway and close to highway 8. You would think this would have been leased long ago.

[UrbanWaterloo]

Now open @ 31 King Street West, Kitchener (formerly a Shoppers Drug Mart).

A Second Look - September 15, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Downtown%20Kitchener/A%20Second%20Look%20%2831%20King%20Street%20West%2 C%20Kitchener%29%20-%20September%2015%2C%202010%20-%201%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Downtown%20Kitchener/A%20Second%20Look%20%2831%20King%20Street%20West%2 C%20Kitchener%29%20-%20September%2015%2C%202010%20-%202%20Resized.JPG

[UrbanWaterloo]

Waterloo sells the train station 5-3.

[SP!RE]

Waterloo sells the train station 5-3.

VERY shortsighted. One payment of $700 000 is not worth it, when we are making money off that lease every year. Not to mention the building is smack-dab in between massive parking lots and could have been used by the city in future development schemes.

It's unfortunate that the meeting was held in the afternoon this time-- a sneaky move that meant few people were present and it happened somewhat silently. Very disappointing indeed.

[plam]

VERY shortsighted. One payment of $700 000 is not worth it, when we are making money off that lease every year. Not to mention the building is smack-dab in between massive parking lots and could have been used by the city in future development schemes.

It's unfortunate that the meeting was held in the afternoon this time-- a sneaky move that meant few people were present and it happened somewhat silently. Very disappointing indeed.

Should the city really be in the business of holding property?

[WatDot]

Should the city really be in the business of holding property?

Depends on how strategic the property is.

[jay]

It was a mistake to sell. Especially since they own the land surrounding it.

Plus they made good profit off the lease.

[mpd618]

Plus they made good profit off the lease.

No one would have profited if the business would have decided to leave because of the uncertainty of further investment in the property. And then it could have easily languished for a few years and gotten demolished through neglect. Not my idea of heritage preservation.

[metropolis]

To answer one question the city already holds considerable property and that will never change so holding on to this would have made little difference. What's more $700,000 seems like a bargain for that lot in the city's centre with a historic piece of property on it! Even though the piece of property along the tracks, behind the building was no part of the deal there is little other use for that sliver of land effectively giving Paul Pumcher reign over that land too.

To comment on another post Paul Puncher would be absolutely crazy to move. This is a plum piece of land for them with the casuals store in another old building at the back of the property and a TON of parking availability. They are incredibly well established in the Uptown and 99% would not move anywhere. That was not a risk.

It is nice to know however that the parking lot next to the property was not part of the deal. Development there becomes a distinct possibility.

Bad move by council. Nice to note we are only 5 weeks away from an election.

[WatDot]

Voting to sell were Mayor Brenda Halloran and councillors Witmer, Scian, Diane Freeman and Ian McLean. Opposed were councillors Whaley, d’Ailly and Angela Vieth.

[Spokes]

Where is the main entrance to the store in the train station?

It's good that the city held on to the lot, it and the other surrounding surface lots will be really valuable in terms of development. Hopefully they're used sooner rather than later.

The train station can and should provide a nice break in both design and size in what could be two very big developments on very big surface lots.

[SP!RE]

No one would have profited if the business would have decided to leave because of the uncertainty of further investment in the property. And then it could have easily languished for a few years and gotten demolished through neglect. Not my idea of heritage preservation.

That's a ridiculous and unlikely scenario you're painted for us there. This is in a prime spot Uptown, right next to Waterloo City Centre. Not to mention that retail and restaurant uses are abundant Uptown and numerous places would swoop in and set up shop in that train station if Paul Puncher left.

Now was not the time to sell it. If need be in the future, they could have done it then. But given its high profile location next to where the city council meets, you'd expect that no matter what is to come in the future of Uptown Waterloo, it would be taken care of.

As for those who ask about a city government being in the "business of holding property"... that's something I've heard time and time again. Yet it's not too compelling. There's many properties that would make sense to sell, but this wasn't one of them. You have to be pragmatic and give each case its fair due. To be black-and-white and suggest that we just sell all our land holdings regardless of individual contexts, is reckless.

[mpd618]

Now was not the time to sell it. If need be in the future, they could have done it then. But given its high profile location next to where the city council meets, you'd expect that no matter what is to come in the future of Uptown Waterloo, it would be taken care of.

Two words: Forsyth Shirt. Sorry, but I've not seen any reason to believe that either Waterloo or Kitchener takes its heritage seriously, and it's not at all clear that heritage is served by these two cities owning properties themselves.

The argument that "we might need it in the future" strikes me as one in favour of eventual demolition by neglect or otherwise, given the local context. I actually don't think there's a right or wrong answer in general about this kind of thing, but I didn't see any decent arguments put forward by opponents in this case.

[SP!RE]

I don't understand the arguments put forth by those in favour of SELLING. Every year we were making lease money off this property. As for the Forsyth Factory, that was in Kitchener and I have started to believe that as a city, we need to rally around our city council to preserve heritage. Selling it off to someone else is no guarantee that the property will be taken care of.

I never stated that "we might need it in the future"-- we already do need this building... it's beautiful and its current use is great. I just think selling it was unnecessary. Centre Block was, in many ways, a whole different can of worms. There's absolutely no way that the following will all happen for THIS property:

1) Tenant leaves train station site.
2) Nobody wants to lease the space.
3) City neglects property in high profile Uptown location.
4) Property remains in this poor condition for years.
5) Building is demolished.

That simply wouldn't happen to this property if it were owned by the City. Unless suddenly it enters the twilight zone.

Anyways, it's all said and done now. But even the relatively sneaky way the council meeting went down shows that there was strong division about selling the property and some people felt threatened. Many valid opinions were missed, and now all we are left with is the more or less unopposed decision.

[Spokes]

I personally don't see why it's such a big deal to sell it. It's protected so there's no fear of it being torn down for redevelopment. Why is it so important for the city to hold onto if they aren't even using it?

[WatDot]

I'm don't have a definitive position on this sale yet and I'm not advocating for the person being quoted below, but I think it's a valid point:

Opponents of the sale said the city may want the station later and doesn’t need the cash. The current annual lease is worth $38,000.
“Perhaps we need a museum down the road, or a cultural centre,” Coun. Jan d’Ailly said. “It’s our job, I believe, to keep our options open.”

[mpd618]

Opponents of the sale said the city may want the station later and doesn’t need the cash. The current annual lease is worth $38,000.
“Perhaps we need a museum down the road, or a cultural centre,” Coun. Jan d’Ailly said. “It’s our job, I believe, to keep our options open.”

It's not like the City of Waterloo has any debt to pay down, right?

The building is far too small to be a useful museum or "cultural centre".

Selling it is a decision. Keeping it in city hands, while citing a serious contemplated city use for the building -- that would also have been a decision. Making an argument for why the city would be a better landlord for this designated heritage building than a private owner would - that would have been grounds for a decision.

It's your job, Mr. mayor hopeful, to make decisions, not to waffle.

[UrbanWaterloo]

I'm at the Future Shop Relocation Grand Opening and it's a zoo here with 250 just in line!

[UrbanWaterloo]

Future Shop Relocation Grand Opening
A17 - 1400 Ottawa Street South, Kitchener

September 24, 2010

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%201%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%202%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%203%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%204%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%205%20Resized.JPG

http://www.wonderfulwaterloo.com/wdrive/Retail/Suburban%20Kitchener/Sunrise%20Centre/Future%20Shop%20Relocation%20Grand%20Opening%20%28 A17%20-%201400%20Ottawa%20Street%20South%2C%20Kitchener%2 9%20-%20September%2024%2C%202010%20-%206%20Resized.JPG

[waterloo_local]

Great photos. I was by there as well. It's a great looking store, so much better than Sportsworld. I'm amazed they weren't here from the start when Sunrise was built! Best electronics store in town

[panamaniac]

Best retail news in K-W in a long time.

Lee Valley Tools to open store in Waterloo
September 24, 2010
Record staff

WATERLOO — Lee Valley Tools, an Ottawa-based chain that sells woodworking and gardening tools and cabinet hardware, is opening a store in Waterloo, its first in Waterloo Region.

The store will open in the summer of 2011 in a renovated building at the corner of Davenport Road and Northfield Drive, the company confirmed Friday.

Occupying about 20,000 square feet, the facility will offer a full slate of Lee Valley products and employ about 20 people at the start, Paul Cathcart, director of marketing for Lee Valley, said in an email.

The company decided to open a store in Waterloo because the region is one of the fastest-growing communities in Canada with a solid, diversified economy, he said. In addition, “there is a long history of woodworking and furniture-making in this area.”

The Waterloo store will be the 15th in Canada for the family-owned company, founded in Ottawa in 1978 by former federal bureaucrat Leonard Lee, who started selling mail-order woodstove kits the year before.

Today, Lee Valley has more than 800 employees and annual revenues of more than $100 million.

The nearest stores are in Burlington and London.

In addition to its retail stores, the company makes its own line of Veritas tools. Its mail-order business in woodworking and gardening tools is one of the largest in North America.

[KevinL]

Best retail news in K-W in a long time.

You said it! Wow, I'm ecstatic to learn about this. Awesome stuff.

[BuildingScout]

Ok, now let's hope IKEA opens in town. A while back they considered opening a store half way between London and KW, but for some reason they choose not to move forward with this.

[waterloo_local]

Ikea has routinely said they need a population of at lease 1 million to support a store. Even though we would like one in K-W, we just don't have the population.

I don't know why its 1 million, but presumably they have data to support it.

[KevinL]

My next request would be Mountain Equipment Co-op, but I don't think that there's (yet) enough of a customer base. Between them and Adventure Guide, likely too much competition to have both survive...

[IEFBR14]

A while back they considered opening a store half way between London and KW, but for some reason they choose not to move forward with this.That would meet their 1 million minimum population threshold but would mean at least a half-hour drive for the vast majority of them.

[IEFBR14]

My next request would be Mountain Equipment Co-op, but I don't think that there's (yet) enough of a customer base.MEC recently voted for Barrie :(

When I e-mailed them to suggest that they should have considered Waterloo Region, their response was that Barrie is closer to most of southern Ontario's recreational areas. But then they're HQ'd in BC so what would they know? ;)


Between them and Adventure Guide, likely too much competition to have both survive.Adventure Guide has been bitching about the tax advantage enjoyed by non-profit cooperatives like MEC for years. Nevertheless they seem to stay in business and even expand, despite there now being two MEC stores in TO and Burlington. Indeed one of the cofounders of AG (Sean) managed to sell AG several years ago and take (very) early retirement in Muskoka so it's fair to conclude that AG was(still is?) quite profitable.

AG isn't the only player in K-W. WebCo in Kitchener joined the fray about three years ago (http://www.webcosports.ca/section/view/?fnode=72).

Historical Note: AG started out in the 1980s as a branch of an Ottawa Valley coop called Goolak. That coop was created to compete with MEC, who at the time only had stores in Vancouver and Calgary. At one point Goolak had stores in Eganville (HQ), Kingston, Toronto and Waterloo (and maybe more.) Goolak failed (as I understood it, one of the founders absconded with the coop's money) and the Waterloo store became AG. I still have my Goolak membership card, not that I expect them to resurrect any time soon :RpS_rolleyes:

[panamaniac]

.......AG isn't the only player in K-W. WebCo in Kitchener joined the fray about three years ago (http://www.webcosports.ca/section/view/?fnode=72).

.............

And they are Downtown. Forget the MEC hype - go local!

[waterloo_local]

A rep a while ago told me that MEC looked at Wloo Region, for both Fairway Rd and Ira Needles (Boardwalk) but then decided to go to Barrie.

Don't see them coming here.

[KevinL]

AG isn't the only player in K-W. WebCo in Kitchener joined the fray about three years ago (http://www.webcosports.ca/section/view/?fnode=72).

Haven't been by there since the reno - will have to check them out. Thanks!

[urbandreamer]

Both Lee Valley and MEC are very much over hyped. 99% of the stuff they sell is crap, at least to this snob....:p

[IEFBR14]

MEC are very much over hyped. 99% of the stuff they sell is crap, at least to this snob....:p
I strongly disagree. I've been buying stuff from MEC since about 1980 and have found the vast majority of their merchandise to be well made and good value. In the one or two cases where something didn't last as long as I thought it should, MEC either repaired or replaced the item to my satisfaction or refunded my money. Their "house brand" merchandise is particularly good value.

I still use my very first purchase, a Klettersack backpack, to get groceries and booze home from Waterloo Square.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVx5FDKSeTFVIlu2lfhumRmZLU_ha70 K04fNFtjcoWE495_TE&t=1&usg=__HmYm22sJOjHGOHHo2NJrIG0JWeE=

Perhaps you'd care to share your negative experiences with MEC.

I can't speak for Lee Valley from personal experience but I've heard nothing but good things about their product quality and customer service.

[KevinL]

Both Lee Valley and MEC are very much over hyped. 99% of the stuff they sell is crap, at least to this snob....:p

I've been a longtime customer of both, and can vouch for both their product lines. Top quality stuff, no filler, excellent service. MEC has a certain advantage on price -the co-op model does them wonders - but Lee Valley's stuff is still worth it (at least the gardening side, haven't used their other tools much).

I'm very glad that I soon won't need a trip to Burlington or Toronto (or resorting to mail order) to get something from Lee Valley. MEC would be nice too, but as I said above, that will need time.

[Spokes]

Haven't been by there since the reno - will have to check them out. Thanks!

Definitely worth checking out. The entire upstairs is devoted to outdoor sports like hiking, camping, backpacking, etc.

[Spokes]

Both Lee Valley and MEC are very much over hyped. 99% of the stuff they sell is crap, at least to this snob....:p

I've got to disagree too. While I don't know much about Lee Valley, MEC products have always been amazing for me. Just my experience.

[waterloo_local]

Yes, MEC has great quality stuff. If you need slip on ice picks or snow shoes, there just isn't much selection out there and have never had a problem with their merchandise

Does anyone know if Adventure Guide is staying where they are for the long haul ? I think if they want to get more recognized they need to be at a mall or other prime retail. Their building and parking isn't the greatest.

[mpd618]

Does anyone know if Adventure Guide is staying where they are for the long haul ? I think if they want to get more recognized they need to be at a mall or other prime retail. Their building and parking isn't the greatest.

They need a better storefront, perhaps with a large glass display. Up until this thread, I'd never really considered the existence of this place, let alone thought of going there. Many people go by there, but I suspect a large part are equally unaware.

[Section ThirtyOne]

Agreed! It's also unfortunate that they rarely seem to have a sale of any consequence, and most of their stuff is stuck at MSRP.

Most time it's worth the drive to MEC in Burlington for both a wider selection, and better pricing.

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

MEC recently voted for Barrie :(

When I e-mailed them to suggest that they should have considered Waterloo Region, their response was that Barrie is closer to most of southern Ontario's recreational areas. But then they're HQ'd in BC so what would they know? ;)

Well it's true. Barrie is the gateway to cottage country and Georgian Bay.

[IEFBR14]

Well it's true. Barrie is the gateway to cottage country and Georgian Bay.
This gateway is from the Golden Horseshoe that's already well-served by Toronto and Burlington so those folks don't need a MEC in Barrie. A Waterloo Region store, or one between here and London, would provide a convenient retail presence to a population of well over 1 million. I suspect the demographics of Waterloo Region (income, age, education, etc.) are also in our favour.

When I lived in Toronto I'd visit their downtown store several times a year and buy $100s per year of merchandise. Now that I've moved back to Waterloo I find myself buying less and less at MEC (nothing in the past year or so.) I recently bought about $500 worth of hiking boots and a backpack locally because I'm not going to buy stuff, especially boots, that needs to fit properly by mail order nor am I going to drive to Toronto just to "look around" and try stuff on for size.

The local stores, AG and WebCo, while their prices may be higher than MEC, still have an advantage based on the savings in time, gas, parking, etc. never mind "green" considerations.

[Section ThirtyOne]

This gateway is from the Golden Horseshoe that's already well-served by Toronto and Burlington so those folks don't need a MEC in Barrie. A Waterloo Region store, or one between here and London, would provide a convenient retail presence to a population of well over 1 million. I suspect the demographics of Waterloo Region (income, age, education, etc.) are also in our favour.

When I lived in Toronto I'd visit their downtown store several times a year and buy $100s per year of merchandise. Now that I've moved back to Waterloo I find myself buying less and less at MEC (nothing in the past year or so.) I recently bought about $500 worth of hiking boots and a backpack locally because I'm not going to buy stuff, especially boots, that needs to fit properly by mail order nor am I going to drive to Toronto just to "look around" and try stuff on for size.

The local stores, AG and WebCo, while their prices may be higher than MEC, still have an advantage based on the savings in time, gas, parking, etc. never mind "green" considerations.

Why not visit the Burlington store? It's well stocked, closer than Toronto and has plenty of free parking. I don't bother with the hassle of going to the King West store anymore.

[IEFBR14]

Why not visit the Burlington store? It's well stocked, closer than Toronto...
1. I realize it's only a single example but the last time we went there they didn't have my wife's boot size. They directed us to the Toronto store (which did.) So we ended up spending twice as much time as if we'd just gone to King St W in the first place. To their credit, MEC now shows inventory at each store on their website. But nevertheless how do I know what size I need without first trying the item on? How can I do that if it's not in stock?

2. The Burlington stores fixtures and shelving are designed for people who are much taller than my wife and me. I could reach items on the top shelf or hook only with great difficulty. My wife didn't, er, stand a chance.

[Urban_Enthusiast86]

This gateway is from the Golden Horseshoe that's already well-served by Toronto and Burlington so those folks don't need a MEC in Barrie. A Waterloo Region store, or one between here and London, would provide a convenient retail presence to a population of well over 1 million. I suspect the demographics of Waterloo Region (income, age, education, etc.) are also in our favour.

There's lots of people and money here, for sure. But there's little opportunity for outdoor recreational activity in southwestern Ontario by comparison. I guess there's Grand Bend, Sauble, and the Pinery, but most of the area is either agricultural or urban. For most people, when they take a trip to "the woods/cottage", it's up north. Barrie is perfectly situated for people picking up supplies "on the way".

And if you're from York Region, it's out of the way to go to downtown Toronto or Burlington. I could see us getting an IKEA before pulling an MEC.

[plam]

A rep a while ago told me that MEC looked at Wloo Region, for both Fairway Rd and Ira Needles (Boardwalk) but then decided to go to Barrie.

Don't see them coming here.

I keep on failing to understand why MEC likes to build stores in such suburban locations (apart from the downtown Toronto location). It's like they want you to drive to the MEC...

Adventure Guide, on the other hand, is definitely bikeable to.