What would YOU do with this site? Vol 2

[natcordev]

What would you do with this space?
152 Shanley Street, Kitchener

I wanted to start a thread that would get everyone's creative juices flowing... Every week we could post a new site or building and pose the following question:

The aim of this post is to get people thinking about creative-innovative ideas for some under utilised (and often overlooked) properties or spaces all around us.

For the second installment of this thread I've chosen a slightly more obscure location in Kitchener (Cambridge will be next). Its very close to the proposed new LRT station on King and Victoria right in the middle of an established residential neighbourhood... So my question to you, Wonderful Waterloo:


What would you do with this space? (http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=152+shanley+st,+kitchener,+on&aq=&sll=43.457311,-80.500109&sspn=0.011059,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=152+Shanley+St,+Kitchener,+Waterloo+Regional +Municipality,+Ontario+N2H+3V3&ll=43.457779,-80.498629&spn=0.011059,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.457841,-80.498429&panoid=SrVSLc_9lWNcE3G-C4UQFA&cbp=12,301.46,,0,-2.36)

152 Shanley St, Kitchener ON

309308307

[mpd618]

Clean up the soil contamination, do a straightforward loft conversion. Tear down the low-rise structures, maybe put in a second, lower industrial/brick building with some apartments and maybe a neighbourhood cafe and another neighbourhood shop.

[plam]

I know that the part of Shanley near King is zoned for mixed-use (so that single-family homes are now legal nonconforming). I don't know how far that zoning goes, and whether it reaches this area. But it seems to me that it's definitely well-suited for a mix of residential and commercial. I'd live there.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

What did this building used to be? What was manufactured there?

I'm thinking something really similar to the Mansion lofts! Do you think they could add a couple floors on the top?

[taylortbb]

I believe that was the Electrohome building. It's discussed somewhere on WW, might have its own thread.

[bzmwillemsen]

Oooh, that's a tough one. Not really on a main road. But in an area that has a lot of potential for some low rise development.
I think I would convert it to a mixed use building.
I would probably clean up the outside, take off the ancient staircases on the sides (but in something a bit more modern.

I would want retail on the low rise part in the back. Probably make the whole section (as it is pretty large) into something with a few stores in it (maybe 3 or 4). Put in a shoppers with a canada post, a convenience store or a farahs, maybe a little hobby store or something to fill up the rest, or a doctors office.

For the main part I would convert everything above the 1st floor into units. With the bottom of the main part of the building I would convert the garage door, take it out completely and put in a store there. (That door is good room for some double glass doors, or a big window). While the rest I would probably give out as units.

[marko]

Here's a quick photoshop mockup, but this place has a lot of potential to be cleaned up. The attached unit on the side would have to go, and could be turned into parking for the residential/commercial component.

Lofts with mixed use in first floor (bakery/cafe, retail). Remove the exterior staircase, place it indoors over one of the retail units. Bury the powerlines. Restore the original painted sign. Add balconies on select units (either iron, like at Kaufman, or glass, which would add a nice contrast). Add some community integration with a patio extending from the retail components.

http://www.thebakerruns.com/w2/forumpostassets/ElectrohomeLofts.png

[benjaminbach]

Thats a very cool mockup!

From what I see, there is a reluctance on the part of developers to go into conversion projects unless they're really high profile (think Breithaupt, Tannery etc), or *really* cheap (like, much less than a comparable greenfield site, or one where they can level the existing buildings and start from scratch).

Andrin had some issues with Kaufman because they had an old pre-existing building to deal with. I know one of their attractions to their current site (City Centre) is that they can build it fresh from the ground up, and not have to navigate the unique issues such an old structure can present.

(PS I *really* like lofts in converted warehouses and hope to see more of them)

[Greg Moore]

I'd make it an arts and community center, similar to The Button Factory, perhaps with a stage for small performances.

[Duke-of-Waterloo]

One interesting thing about this neighbourhood is that it already has a somewhat mixed-use character - even though it is now officially a MU area. There are small stores (convenience stores, hair salons, auto garages) scattered throughout. I guess if this is redeveloped within reason, the current neighbours wouldn't have as much opposition to similar commercial uses.

[mpd618]

One interesting thing about this neighbourhood is that it already has a somewhat mixed-use character - even though it is now officially a MU area. There are small stores (convenience stores, hair salons, auto garages) scattered throughout. I guess if this is redeveloped within reason, the current neighbours wouldn't have as much opposition to similar commercial uses.

On second thought, don't tear down the entire low-rise portion. Instead, put a City Cafe Bakery in part of it.

[dunkalunk]

I live on Briar. This area is not designated as mixed-use, it is only the properties fronting King Street which are designated mixed use.

I can also attest that the streets in the area are too narrow in the winter to allow for any car-intensive retail. I think this building's potential mostly lies in direct studio conversion for either residential or office use.

[benjaminbach]

I live on Briar. This area is not designated as mixed-use, it is only the properties fronting King Street which are designated mixed use.

+1

[Spokes]

Assuming you could deal with the contamination issues, which I've heard are quite significant, I'd go with a straight loft conversion of the taller building. While some mixed use would be nice, it's not crucial for me. I'd tear down the shorter section and replace it with brownstones along Shanley st. Behind them in that little space would be parking for all the occupants. You could access this rear lot from either Shanley or Duke.


http://www.thebakerruns.com/w2/forumpostassets/ElectrohomeLofts.png

Interesting mock up, personally I think the balconies ruin the look of the building. Especially if you went with glass. The ones at Kaufman look alright because they are off the main street. They wouldn't look as good right on King. I also think given the size of the building it'd be hard to have two commercial units. Unless they were the size of closets.

And you're never going to get them to bury the hydro lines.

[benjaminbach]

I also think given the size of the building it'd be hard to have two commercial units. Unless they were the size of closets.

To my eye, it looks like there is sufficient space for a couple ground floor retail units. Even if you had to go partially outside of the taller building, the land is a bit over 0.80 of an acre, so there is lots of room to work with.

[mpd618]

Assuming you could deal with the contamination issues, which I've heard are quite significant, I'd go with a straight loft conversion of the taller building. While some mixed use would be nice, it's not crucial for me. I'd tear down the shorter section and replace it with brownstones along Shanley st. Behind them in that little space would be parking for all the occupants. You could access this rear lot from either Shanley or Duke.

I really like this idea.

[Matt2727]

What did this building used to be? What was manufactured there?

I'm thinking something really similar to the Mansion lofts! Do you think they could add a couple floors on the top?

I think i would rather see a rooftop patio and a bar and maybe even a pool if theres enough room.



Assuming you could deal with the contamination issues, which I've heard are quite significant, I'd go with a straight loft conversion of the taller building. While some mixed use would be nice, it's not crucial for me. I'd tear down the shorter section and replace it with brownstones along Shanley st. Behind them in that little space would be parking for all the occupants. You could access this rear lot from either Shanley or Duke.

I also like this idea.

[Section ThirtyOne]

Anyone have further details as to what the contamination issues are specifically? I'm assuming some sort of heavy metal contamination from the old manufacturing operations there.

[Newgrad]

Anyone have further details as to what the contamination issues are specifically? I'm assuming some sort of heavy metal contamination from the old manufacturing operations there.

I don't think it was that long ago that there was an article in the Record about the contamination issues. The Record had interviewed people in the neighbourhood who said that the water table in the area had been contaminated by leeching chemicals. The article made it sound like the contamination was widespread.

I might take a look for it and see what I can find.

[marko]

I don't think it was that long ago that there was an article in the Record about the contamination issues. The Record had interviewed people in the neighbourhood who said that the water table in the area had been contaminated by leeching chemicals. The article made it sound like the contamination was widespread.

I might take a look for it and see what I can find.

Found the article via Google, looks like it's from last November. Link (PDF) (http://www.johnbmiller.ca/mrsmiller/Enviro%20Docs/Human%20Health/Duke%20St.%20Factory.pdf).

[KevinL]

Found the article via Google, looks like it's from last November. Link (PDF) (http://www.johnbmiller.ca/mrsmiller/Enviro%20Docs/Human%20Health/Duke%20St.%20Factory.pdf).

The PDF was made in November, the story itself has a 2007 copyright.

[mpd618]

The Mt. Hope - Breithaupt Park Neighbourhood Association has some more (http://mhbpna.blogspot.com/2010/06/shanley-and-duke-st-factory-building.html) information (http://mhbpna.blogspot.com/2011/01/environmental-testing-around-shanley.html) on the contamination issues. I've heard the contamination is from tetrachloroethylene, but the documents there probably have better info.

[mmccauley]

I don't think it was that long ago that there was an article in the Record about the contamination issues. The Record had interviewed people in the neighbourhood who said that the water table in the area had been contaminated by leeching chemicals. The article made it sound like the contamination was widespread.

I might take a look for it and see what I can find.

Here is the link to the actual article (http://www.totalwomanshow.ca/News/Local/article/719375) for those interested - looks like it was published May 29, 2010.

[EdTheTed]

I have seen plans that the (hopeful) purchaser of this building has produced. They are very uplifting. If everything goes through, it will be a condo development and have a couple of floors tastefully added and the back part torn down and replaced by more condos. The contamination will be removed and replaced by underground parking. It looks wonderful.

A few thoughts on people's comments: A cafe or food place would be nice, but there are already decent places in the Tannery and when you add food, the zoning gets _much_ more complicated. You also have to deal with fool delivery and garbage, so the developers abandoned that idea.

Some folks have discussed a community place like the Button factory etc. Nice idea, but there is no money for that. There is a _great_ deal of environmental and structural work to be done, and the only thing that will pay for it is more condos.

It's a complicated property but hopefully there will be positive news by the summer.

[jallen]

You also have to deal with fool delivery and garbage

Yeah, I hear fools cost a fortune to ship. :RpS_lol:

In all seriousness, though, I'm surprised to say the least. Perhaps I've only noticed the larger-scale factory-to-condominium conversions, but is this not on a rather smaller street than this type of construction is normally done? And in a smaller factory, as well.

[mpd618]

That's great to hear, EdTheTed -- and welcome to the forums! I suspect that parking impacts are rightfully going to get a lot of pushback in the neighbourhood. The developer should really talk to CarShare about reducing the parking demand (I'm happy to talk to them about that).


A few thoughts on people's comments: A cafe or food place would be nice, but there are already decent places in the Tannery and when you add food, the zoning gets _much_ more complicated. You also have to deal with fool delivery and garbage, so the developers abandoned that idea.

The Tannery is a 10 minute walk, not really all that close. I certainly can understand a developer not wanting to deal with complicated zoning, but my target in commentary on what should be there is the planners that make that zoning so complex in the first place. If the developer thinks a cafe would do well here, then they should be allowed to have it without applying for a $10K and year-long rezoning (or however much it is).


In all seriousness, though, I'm surprised to say the least. Perhaps I've only noticed the larger-scale factory-to-condominium conversions, but is this not on a rather smaller street than this type of construction is normally done? And in a smaller factory, as well.

This would be pretty similar in magnitude to the Mansion Street Lofts (see Street View (http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.457123,-80.479878&spn=0.003481,0.006899&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.457123,-80.479878&panoid=_MTZ-5FjKY9E0a0HmCMABA&cbp=12,32.72,,0,-15.26)).

[KingandOttawa]

Agreed on all points.

[EdTheTed]

I suggested to them they include a Carshare spot and they were interested. The plan is to dig out all the contamination and put most parking below the surface. I do not think parking will get a lot of "pushback in the neighbourhood" because people are so tired of the existing building and its deterioration. I think they are looking at one parking spot per unit and believing many owners would take advantage of the (new) transit centre nearby.

"In all seriousness, though, I'm surprised to say the least. Perhaps I've only noticed the larger-scale factory-to-condominium conversions, but is this not on a rather smaller street than this type of construction is normally done? And in a smaller factory, as well. "

The plans were to add a couple of stories and to remove the existing addition and build a few townhouses there (kind of like one of the mockups shows in this thread). So basically they will maximize the number of units that could be built (which is another reason for not adding a cafe). The developers showed their plans to some of us from the community to gauge our reaction and it was all positive. IF it happens, it will be great!

[Bristolman]

Is there anything happening with the old Electrohome building on Shanley? I did a site search and couldn't find anyone talking about it here.

[Admin Note - Post Moved To This Thread]

[Smore]

The Mt Hope Breithaupt Community Association blogged about it here